Hi,
How are you? What’s new. Today I wanted to
share another technique that I use when supporting
my mom with bipolar disorder.
First let me make a comment that my mom knows
that I write all these emails and she agreed
to let me do it. She knows that the only
way for people to find out about bipolar
disorder and how to support someone is for
someone like me to write about it.
My dad knows as well. He is not clear
on how people like yourself find people
like me and how emails really work but
he thinks it’s a great idea. I have
gotten a few people writing me and saying
that I should say bad things about my mom
and her bipolar disorder.
My comment to this is, if everyone keeps
pretending that bipolar disorder is not
a serious illness and if every site
simply talks about the same old things
and doesn’t talk about the real realities
of the illness, more and more destruction
with happen with families because of bipolar
disorder.
Okay on with the question. There’s a way
that people who have bipolar disorder AND
are in episodes and not engaged in the
right treatment, do.
Let me give you a case study that happen
to me my mom’s last mini episode.
Mom: I need money to pay my taxes
Dave: No response.
Mom: I need money to pay my taxes (crying
starts)
Dave: No response.
Mom: Do you know that taxes are due and I
don’t have enough money (crying stops, new
strategy of trying to be “business like”
starts).
Dave: I look puzzled like she is speaking
another language.
NOTE-I have paid my mom’s taxes for like
6 or 7 years in a row and told my mom
she had to pay her own taxes. I told her at
the end of LAST year. She had more than 365
days of notice. And it’s not like she making
25 million a year and has tons of taxes to
pay. We are talking $300+.
Mom: Fine! I can’t believe you are going
to let me not pay my taxes. I am going to
go to jail. You don’t even care. I will
pay them myself since you didn’t. You said
you would. I am going to get a job and work
all day and night to make enough money.
That won’t help me stay stable. I hope
I don’t get sick again.
Dave: Okay. And I walk away.
My mom follows me.
Mom: You don’t even care if I get
sick, or if I go and work myself into
being sick. You are a terrible son.
You are mean. If I get sick, it’s
your fault.
Dave: Silence
Yelling starts. Then I feel it’s time to
use the “Call Her Bluff Technique”
Dave: Well, if you go and do something
stupid with a job and get off your disability,
lose your part time job, go into a big
episodes, create all kinds of drama, etc.
etc. etc. then I will let my system catch
it OR I will call 911 and you will be put
in the hospital. I will make sure that
YOU not dad is charged for the ambulance
visit and you have to pay for the hospital
in small payments forever. So go ahead
and do it. Make yourself sick. It doesn’t
matter to me one way or another.
Mom: She is all mad at me and then storms
away.
LATE THAT DAY
My dad calls and tells me my mom worked out
a payment plan with the IRS and how she
was on the phone talking to them laughing
like they were best friends. She will
be paid off in like 2 months according
to my dad.
She did none of the threats she promised.
My dad then informs me how anytime my mom
made threats using her bipolar disorder
he would do whatever it took to avoid the
threat. He is amazed how I am unfazed by
these threats.
If you are supporting someone with bipolar
disorder, I am sure that you have heard this
type of thing. If you reread what I wrote,
notice all the manipulation. Back in the
day, I would freak out and it would work on
me.
How do you think I lost over $250,000 with
my mom and why do you think I paid her taxes
6 or 7 years in a row. I always did because
she would cry and say something really bad
would happen if I didn’t pay her taxes and
I would get worried and pay them.
In addition to all the other things I was
doing for so many years. These days, I am
unfazed by this type of manipulation.
I almost always call my mom’s bluff.
OH, if you are out of the country, calling
one’s bluff means let me think how I explain
it.
A bluff is something that’s not true. To call
it means to see if the person will do what he/she
says they will do. In the case with my mom,
I knew she wasn’t going to go get a job,
ruin her disability or drive her self back into
the hospital by working 24 hours a day. So
I challenged her to do it.
Today I will get lots of hate mail for sure.
I will get things say I am mean and mean
to people with bipolar disorder. They will
yell at me. Here’s the deal if you have bipolar
disorder. First, I have 8 or 9 people with
bipolar disorder who work for me. AND, I am
hiring more. So I do NOT hate people with
bipolar disorder.
Everyone who works for me, knows what I write.
They know it’s the truth and they know people
who have the disorder who are in episodes and
not engaged in the right treatment with a good
doctor/therapist do the things I write about.
If you are “so angry I can’t even see straight”,
you probably aren’t engaged in the right treatment
and that’s why you are mad at me. The thousands
on this list that are following the right
treatment write me notes of encouragement.
Okay enough with that.
DISCLAIMER
I am not a doctor, therapist, lawyer,
accountant or anything else. These techniques
work for me. You should use them at your discretion.
Check with your doctor, therapist, family doctor,
lawyer, etc. before trying them.
WARNING!
Take ALL suicide statements seriously. If a loved
one mention suicide call the doctor, 911, police,
etc or who or whatever you call in your country.
YOU MUST TAKE ALL SUICIDE THREATS 100% SERIOUSLY
Let me say that again.
YOU MUST TAKE ALL SUICIDE THREATS SERIOUSLY AND
CALL A DOCTOR/Hospital/911 Or emergency services.
ALL THE TIME! No exceptions. Take all these
threats even the small mention seriously. Some
say up to 20% of people with bipolar disorder
attempt suicide. I think everyone who works
for me with bipolar disorder has attempted suicide
over the years at least once. Take this seriously!
Actually, here’s an assignment for you. Find out
who and what you call for the threat of suicide
and bipolar disorder today. Go do that and then
make yourself a plan.
This is one of the things that I teach in my
systems/courses you can check out:
SUPPORTING AN ADULT?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com/
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.survivebipolar.net/
Well I have to run, I hope you enjoyed the lesson.
I have a million things I have to do so I have to
take off for the day.
Your Friend,
Dave
P.S. Check out my F.ree blog with copies of emails
that I have sent in the past and lots of great
information for you:
http://www.bipolarcentral.com/supporterblog/
P.P.S Check out my F.ree podcast. Hear me give
mini seminars designed to teach you information
you can’t learn anywhere else.
http://bipolarcentral.libsyn.com/
Dave, I have been getting your emails on BiPolar Disorder for sometime and 95% of them I read through and through. However, this is the first time that I have actually commented on one of your emails. You said you would get alot of “hate” mail. Not from me. You see “I” am the one who suffers with this disorder. Yes, it is quite serious! In the past I have pulled the same stunt as your mom did myself. As I read the email It sounded like me. Honestly, it was a poor attempt on my part to get attention. I find myself frustrated this morning and read this email, it helped me put things into perspective! I have, also, learned how to deal with and recognize things that usually that throw me into “going BiPolar”. I feel as if a person with this disorder says, “I’m going BiPolar” to me means they can conrtol it!!!!!!! Many THANKS!!!! Evette
David,
You are so right, they do manipulate when they are in an episode. YOur material has helped me so much. My husband is bi-polar and self medicates. He has done this for years. He is 45. Everyone in his life chalked him up to being a drunk (he is a binger) takes off for about 2- 3mo.Family friends just think he just doesn’t want to get his life together. Anyway the story gets better, He is a former marine, he has been in and out of rehab, but never diagnosed with bi-polar, We got married 3 yrs ago, and within 3 mos he took off for the 1st time in Sept it took me til Feb to get him in VA
I had to fight with them for them to believe he was bi-polar. They pretty much gave him a pill and said see ya in 6 mo. I was not as smart and he knew less than I did what bi-polar was. So we thought ok everything should be great! Wrong, Spring comes and with spring mania, by Sept we are gone again 2mo.
I am now desperately trying to find good docs. YOur course has help me have hope.
I said all this to just say thank you, Sometimes I feel so alone in this, but as bad as I feel I know my husband hurts more.
Patti
Dear Sir.I have bi-polar disorder. Ive spent years with family who never cracked a book on it.. my ex husband had his own problems.I researched everything about his illness(he had Aids)so that i could help him. problem was that him being a middle child and the only boy..and me being afraid i was going to lose him any second was too rigid on his diet etc…he eventually threw me out..but ther had come a time when we were in an arguement that he beagan to yell i needed to go to the hospital.well i did a reality chk. he had just wanted me to get off his case.so HE used my bi-polar to get me to shut up…WE have normal feelings like any one else..meaning we cry. get angry,get hurt. feel lonliness stc.Everyone is bi-polar.we hapen to go to the extremes.. your mom tried to manipulate…a LOt of people do and they are not bi-polar…so just cause she was manipulating to get help Does not mean she was in a mini phase she was just being who she is. some bi-polar people are killers,thieves,insecure and have alot of emotinal prblems, but these thing dont mean that a person is bi-polar or in a phase.Im sorry if Im not explaining myself well. people are a mixed bag. the highs and lows are the definitivesanybody can have some of the bahviors you describe. I have not been in the hospital in seven yrs..I have a daughter who is having a multitude of problems and i need to be stable to help her… im going through depression right now.and im having a hard time of it. I have no money. I havent been on a spending spree since walmart two years ago when the kids and my husband needed clothes($200) for six people.2 step children.
My husband has his own money problems from the last divorce.Im going to be straight forward, the back round info was so you understand.I want your program so that i can be more stable, Also there is a program out there for a three minute depression cure.And everything is very expensive.and my husband and i arent sure they are going to work.I have no ins.. and have doctor bills..what can you do for us?
So Dave I really liked how you “handled” your mother. My daughter, age 18, has bipolar; so does her father. We recently divorced and our daughter chose to live with her father due to the no rules.
I took the dog, which was hers. After 7 months, she has stated that she is going to come over and get the dog because it is hers. She then went on a tirade about how I have to chose either her or the dog. I am very torn up about this situation. She is totally manipulating the whole situation. I am not going to let her have the dog. Any suggestions?
Janet
Dear Dave, I forgot to thankyou.
Thankyou…
Janet, It sounds like she wants and loves her dog. and shes trying to get him..but she said “ME or the DOG” like she lives with you or the dog does..maybe she wants to know if you love her? maybe she wants to move back in to be with you,the dog or both.If its hers.why keep it?mabe thats her security blanket.
To those who deal with BiPolar and NOT have it…… It is often difficult to understand why those that do have it do certain things. I am not a doctor or a nurse or a social worker. I am someone that has this awful disorder. It took me 2 trips to a mental hospital to get my meds straight and it has taken me many years to get a grasp on what I have. I am not the only one that suffers from it. It affects eveytone i come in contact with. Before I got on a medicine regiment I flew off at the handle, got angry, went through the depression, everything, the whole nine yards. I still have boughts with depression, but it is in my mind. I have to work harder to function than those without my disorder. I do take meds and I am very greatful. They do allow me to function on a more normal bases. There are alwys suggestions, but it is not cut and dry. It is like trying a diet . What works for one, won’t necessarily work for another. My best advice is once you have gone through and found meds that have worked for you, you need to figure out how you gonna convince yourself to stay on them to stay “better”. In my case, I told myself it was no different than my dad having to take his high blood pressure and diabetic meds…… YOU do what it takes to survive. This disorder is treatable and you can function, you just got to want it bad enough.
Evette
My son’s exwife has bipolar. They have a daught together and she uses her to maniuplate my son. what a life. I hope he will learn how to cope with her from your news letters for his daughter’s sake. I know I will, I will no longer allow her to lie to me or create turmoil in my home to get her way. Thank you for giving me a tool help make life easier for my son and grand daughter.
Kathy
As a former special needs teacher, vocational rehabilitation counselor and wife of a person with bi-polar disorder, I can certainly state that it has been an interesting five years with my husband. First, I would like to say that many people might discount the idea that there might actually be a cause besides chemical imbalance. However, my husband, a really wonderful man has been receiving Tegretol since he was 36 due to a seizure disorder his father, the gastroenterologist, felt he was competent to treat (and who flunked the course in neurology). Due to temporal lobe syndrome, which included seizures, my husband spent many miserable years with sleep disorders and many of the classic signs of temporal lobe syndrom. Recently a wise and wonderful doctor changed his medication from the older version of Tegretol to the extended release. It has made a wonderful change. No longer are there the ups and downs. It has helped with his sleeping disorder though it hasn’t “cured” it. He is able to take the stresses of a highly stressful job better and performs quite well in the world of finance. Yes, I have used the passive actions of letting his blow off and have also used the active of quiet discussion and sometmes not so quiet discussion.
I urge other persons to investigate with the person any potential medical issues that may have happened including mild to moderate undiagnosed head injuries, illnesses such as meningitis, etc, difficult birthing. There may be undiagnosed causes that can be treated with medications to control these outbursts. My husbands were caused by deep brain lesions bi-laterally in the temporal lobes that were unable to be diagnosed until he was 36. On a current MRI, the lesions were unrecognizable, indicating some “healing”.
When we met, I knew there was a wonderful person underneath and the good times made the wait for a medical change possible. Everyone is different. I have been lucky to have had professions that gave me some insight ahead of time. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have stayed around to reap the beautiful rewards.
Signed,
Loving Wife
Ok, Dave, I’ve got bipolar and I manage it.
Ok, I don’t “hate” you.
I gotta tell you though, that there is a difference between not being manipulated by someone in an episode and making it worse by not attending to the person at all.
I gotta tell you, I’ve got issues, rooted in my family of origin and ignoring me would just about push me over the edge if you did that to me.
I imagine that I am not the only one like that.
Being assertive and not putting up with being manipulated doesn’t mean that you can treat the person with bi-polar like they are not even human.
That tactic is pretty much asking for the person to go in and out of the hospital and episodes endlessly with no hope in sight.
Sorry, Dave you are completely wrong, there.
Ignoring someone is pretty evil.
DAVID I THINK YOUR COMMENTS ARE WONDERFUL. WE DO FOSTER CARE. AND WE HAVE A 14 YEAR OLD BOY WHO HAS BIPOLAR DISORDER. SOME OF YOUR IDEAS HAVE WORKED. SOME OF WHICH WE HAVE TO TRY YET. TY FOR THE GOOD THINGS U DO TO HELP OTHERS.
This is also my 1st time to comment on your e-mails, though I
always benefit from them. But
today was priceless. I am bipolar
and laughed out loud recognizing
myself and have forwarded it to my
supporter, who will also love it.
I want to work for you, so I’m
filling out the paperwork today.
Pat
I am commenting to suicide threats. Whenever I feel that I am getting ready to do harm to myself, I call someone close. The last time I called my cousin. By the time she reached me, I had already begun to hurt myself. She took me to mental health. Because of prior attempts, I know when I reaching a danger zone and I call out for help before it’s too late.
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Dave,
Thankyou for all your work.
I want you to know that I was reading your comments for several months. Then I had reached the point in my husbands and my relationship [He is BiPolar]
where I thought I can’t take this any more.I quit.
I take care of my 94 year old Grandpa here at home and was feeling over whelmed.
Then… oh 3 or 4 extended episodes latter the dr dosn’t take me serious I decided to start reading them again. hum.. I did not have the guts to delete the mail because deep down inside I knew your help was working. The episodes involved the police being called on him. Once in a bank. Of course he is not at falt.
My adult kids said to me “Yes MOM sooner or latter he will end up in jail.. so what let him” I say no I’ll have to go get him out and then he won’t get the exact help he needs. He happened to leave right before law inforcement arrived.
My daughter is graduating from a University with a degree in Psych and the last episode she said to me over the phone” Mom we just visited some very nice places they use for people like Dad so if this keeps up we will have to put him there!”
We have a secret code with each other now and smile WE know a very nice place! that kind of breaks the ice and I get down to business with how to deal with the latest mess.
Then last week I was fustrated because I have several people now at church who have come out of the closet and told me of ther pain and want answers because they think I have it together. Crazy thought!!
I’m just getting open about it thats all and I won’t be black mailed any more by him.
Any way I came out of denial and want more info. I want to sign up but can’t make up my mind which program to start with.
Thankyou for not giving up. You give hope to alot of pople who want to find ways to cope and help their family understand and possibly grow from this experience.
I want my kids to see that we are not Victems in life. We can do it with the right information.
I have to figure out how to take the money away safely and not demoralize him in the process.
He still is a man and deserves respect.
He did marry me in good faith and it’s not his fault.
Thanks so much.
Now Dave I thought I was the only one who wrote alot to people and my peers make fun of me. I’ve met my match and it feels good I’m not alone in this.
Did I mention I had to quit my travel job because I never knew what he would do next and it’s getting worse not better.
I read in your letter that I need a plan . Will do.
Thanks so much
Miss Hair Biz
Hi dave this is the first time i am writing u so .i just want to let u know that the info u send me is realy great. my mother inlaw has bypolar and its realy hard on me. but am dealing with it .to tell u the story and what happened, it would take me a week to tell u whats going on.and i know u dont have the time .so thank u again for the great info.always looking forward to reading youe emails . patty from prince george B.C.
Hi Dave,
My friend has bi-polar and she can be very manipulative.I try to be strong like you in dealing with her,but it can be very wearing
and hard work.I love her dearly but she can be testing.Im also a student nurse,I was originally doing adult general nursing.Since I have changed over to mental health branch.I look forward to future emails from you.
Regards Kath (nottm, england)
I have bipolar disorder. I have told my partner in the past that something he was pushing me about was going to make me sick. (We disa gree often on issues of handling my drug abusing daughter.) When i tell him this, I am really feeling that pushing the issue at hand will make me sick if I am forced to deal with it at that time. But, after reading your letter, I can see how it may feel like someone is trying to be manipulative.. and maybe on some level it is. I will have to think abot this. I have been really doing some self evaluation since I have joined this site. So much of what this David says my David has been saying for years… and I guess this gives my David some validation. And to Evette… what does your last comment say? when someone feels something is so stressful it makes you feel unstable and you identify it… that it means you can control the outcome? I hope I can achieve this somehow….. After 12 years of diagnosis and over 35 years of dealing with the effects of this disease.. A little control would be a blessing.
To Loving wife: I have bipolar disorder. I was recently released from the hospital for loss of conscouisness episodes. They thought it may have been seizures but all neuro tests were negative for that… They resolved on there own afer 5 days. The only diagnosis they were able to give me was it must have been some sort of hysterical reaction related to my bipolar. Their house PDoc went on to tell me that their is thought now that untreated bipolar causes actually brain mater damage and that treatment with drugs such as tegretol, lamictal and depakote not only prevents this damage but long term can repair this. I am a nurse and have never heard any therory that bipolar disease is diagnosable on MRI/MRA type scans… anyone out there been told this? ( I have worked with this PDoc on a professional level and do not really trust his statements I feel like he was tryig to scare me because I had taken myself off my meds….)
Hoorah! I have bp myself – but from reading a lots of desperate posts from family members – I see a lot of similar manipulation going on – Frankly I don’t think it has anything muchto do with bp (I saw the same mechanisms at work in my alcoholic ex)I learned similar coping techniques from Alanon & I recommend it to anyone who has such problems. They are free & very supportive.
::: wiping sweat from brow ::: thanks Dave !!! Realized i was getting manipulated and got myself to Al-Anon. The message today was very similar.. getting caught up in the insanity, creating those limits and borders and staying 100% in OUR own bodies and not half in my body/half in hers !! So, while awaiting a court date, i was looking through a magazine and said i’d buy her something. She said, “Aren’t you not supposed to do that?” I said, “Oh i can buy you treats, but i will not rescue yoru checking account ever again.” Said in calm, determined voice. She looked a lil shocked, nodded and said ok.
A lil later.. the judge was running behind, she went into her ‘i don’t know what to do whine’ and i said ‘what do you think you should do’. Surprise, surprise, she had some good ideas. I cautioned about doing too much too soon and she blew with the, ‘see, you always have to be in my business, blah blah blah.’
So, your lessons on getting manipulated.. oh Dave.. yes !!! ME first, ME first.. lol
oh oh oh.. AND, the attorney presented Susie as doing a 90 day voluntary committment, staying on her meds, doing the treatment recommended and being BIPOLAR. ::: applause for the judge ::: who said, “Good for you for sticking with it. I know that had to be hard ::::
((see me biting lip, smiling as daughter turned to come out with proud subdued grin on her face))
x the cognitive brain may manipulate n play but h0w do we kn0w they don’T mean what they say…?! x there’s n0 black or white here..there’s far 2much grey…if they want us s0 much , then why push us away?! xbuTTerFLy – Londonx
Hi Dave;
I just recently (2 months ago) left my husband who has all the symptoms of bi-polar. I cannot even begin to tell you the mistakes I made financially and emotionally just dealing with my husband. His baits and threats always seemed real to me and I responded for a long time. Since he had no intention to seek treatment (the last time he went to get help was just to humor me and he is such a manipulator that he worked everything in his favor). So I realized to help him I had to leave and help him from afar. That is where we are today. He knows he will not get me back if he does not get real help he will loose me forever. I’ve only signed up for your e-mails a few weeks ago and I already feel myself getting stronger and I don’t feel like I’m fighting a lone battle. thank you
val
Dave,
Thanks for all you do and many blessings… first of all it’s interesting i did get a suicide threat today but since he is not in this country i did call his sister and i called his mom but did not tell his mom everything but I told his sister… on top of all this…. the influence of alcohol comes through as well. I tried to make things work for 20 years but it became so unhealthy for myself and the kids that I had to get out. It is a horrible disease in which alcohol is quite destructive and thedisease seems to get magnified. I suppose i finally gave up in the end I realized I could not cure anything or really be of any help. And breaking away from this one of the most difficult things I ever done.
🙁
David,
I just want you to know that I will be married to a man with bipolar for 44 years next month. First 1-5 years were nice. The past 30 were awful, and since 1997 he spent our retirement ($670,000.)
He recently found a new psychiatrist and is on a brand new medication. The guy I fell in love with many years ago and married, I have now fallen in love with him again. I’m praying that we have a wonderful rest of our lives here on earth.
Another thing, I wish all our biological family (both sides) could see him now, but they all took a hike many years ago. Said I was the crazy person to stay with him. I have the last laugh~
God bless and Thank You!
A very grateful wife
hi Dave. My name is Chantal and I was looking for support for my husband. I am the one with bipolar ( recently diagnosed) and I am having a really bad time with it. I am a mother of 3 and 25 years old. My youngest one is only 5 months old. I feel very alone in this and did not believe that I was bipolar until i read about your mom. Wow that is like me i get mad at my kids for no-reason and realize later how i reacted. I burst out in tears. This is not me!!!! I did not believe the doctors who diagnosed me. That cant happen to me? But after reading your story I now believe strongly that I do suffer from bipolar. My husband das not understand this illness and it will be the end of our marriage! But thanks to your e-mails we both came to understand it better and I am slowly trying to get this under control for him and my beautiful children. I just wanted to say: thank you Dave…. Love from Chantal and Allan out of Canada.
dear dave thanks for your tips very helpful i have taken the bait and been manipulated i have been doing it all wrong maybe its to late i have just walked away from a series of being blamed for everything that has gone wrong in his life my image of myself is kind caring and supportive but definitly not helpful i have just recently stood my ground and walked away when i did this in the past i would be the one to reconcile but this time no more i care a lot for him and i know he wil never get better but if we get back together i want to be able to support him in the right way firm and strong thanks again pamela
Dave, I just started receiving your e-mails, and I thank you for your advice. My mother and my teenage daughter are bipolar, but their type of manipulation is different. My daughter is a “cutter” and I can’t argue with her when she is having an episode because I know what will happen next. Once, I ignored the small cuts she had hoping that if she saw no reaction in me she would stop, but it was worse. On the other side, my mom’s manipulation is purely emotional. She wants me to be around her all the time, and I cannot show feelings for any friends, because she gets terribly angry.For instance, my co-worker of 4 years died suddenly last week and I have been depressed, which has made my mom angry with me, because this person was “just an acquaintance” so now she is not eve accepting my calls. According to her we are all bad children and nobody loves her! She doesn’t understand that the more she argues, the less anybody wants to be with her. I’m the only one able to deal with her, but I feel she is damaging me emotionally. Perhaps you can give advice about emotional manipulation.
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hii david how are you? ı dont english very well so ı dont understant your say. where are you from and how old are you? are you student? say please…
I have a son who is bi-polar. He is the master of manipulation. My brother who passed away was also bi-polar. I is so hard to deal with and the number one thing to do is as you said. Call their bluff and dont allow the manipulation sway you.
Thanks Evie… i’ll try to remember this… it is ging to take a lot of being honest with myself.
Hi Dave,
Thank you for the help!!! I don’t feel so frustrated now.
Can I ask a question? Did your mother ever try to convince you that you were bipolar so that you would leave her alone? Did you ever question whether or not you were seeing things incorrectly as she tried to manipulate you and change focus in arguments?
Just wondering if I am the only one this tactic has been tried on and if not, how others deal with it.
Thank you again for helping me feel less like I am the only one who sees these behaviors in people I love dearly.
In Christ,
Blessed
I have a son and a mother with bipolar and I agree with everything you said and I have had to do the same as you have financially (back off and let them take responsibility for themselves). Hard call but necessary for ones own sanity.
scorpio