Hi,
How are you?
Hey, I am actually off to New York City going to a convention to help with growing this organization.
I have to get going again.
So let’s get going.
On my blog, Rev. Parsons posted:
“What do you do when you are
all that and because of their condition
they decide they don’t need you
anymore?
My wife is Bipolar ( we think) she
went to a psydoc this week and the
doctor said there was nothing wrong
with her.
She could not describe her symptoms
very well(at times she is delusional
and has no idea what she has said
or done)
My wife is 8 weeks pregnant and
has been gone for a week now and of
course blames me for everything
and now can’t decide whether she
wants to be with me or not (says she
loves me and does not want to be
with anyone else but has cheated on
me in the past) what do you do????
I am there for my wife whom I love
dearly but how do you help someone
that does not have an official diagnosis
and does not want your help because
they are manic???? what do you do???”
———————————————
Wow.
I truly sympathize with this man, don’t you? What an awful place to be in if you’re a supporter.
Well, first of all, like I always have to say, I’m not a medical or mental health professional, so I can’t give any kind of professional advice in that way.
I can only speak from experience and from all the thousands of emails and posts on my blog and forum and all the other supporters who have contacted me and who I’ve talked to.
When someone has bipolar disorder and they are in an episode, they are not in their right mind.
Even in my courses/systems, when I talk about the signs and symptoms of a bipolar episode, I talk about irrational thinking as being one of them.
SUPPORTING AN ADULT WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
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HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
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So this man’s wife just up and deciding she doesn’t need him any more is a sign of that.
But many people with bipolar disorder are also good at manipulating other people, like doctors, psychiatrists, and therapists.
They can also be in denial.
Especially in a manic episode, when they are so “high,” and feeling so good, that they really do not believe that anything is wrong with them.
They can even act as if there is nothing wrong with them, and that’s how they can “fool” the doctors into not diagnosing their bipolar disorder, like this man’s wife did.
Unfortunately, many doctors will miss the diagnosis for this very reason.
It’s easy to see depressive behavior, because it’s pretty much hard to hide, so a diagnosis is pretty easy to make.
But a manic episode is different, and that’s what Rev. Parsons is describing.
Many times someone in a manic episode cannot describe their symptoms because they just don’t
know them very well, so the fact that she couldn’t describe them to the doctor very well either may not be just because she was delusional, but because she was just not aware of the systems of mania.
He also could be right about her not having any idea about what she says or does. This is a big part of a manic episode.
There are several problems he describes in his post on my blog, some of which I can address, and some of which I can’t.
Like the fact that she is 8 weeks pregnant. That really concerns me, but I am not a doctor. I would urge him to get her to a doctor, though, because this could be very dangerous both to his wife and to the baby.
As far as her blaming him for everything, that is also typical manic behavior, and part of the irrational and delusional thinking I talked about earlier.
He says, “She has cheated on me in the past…” and that is also part of manic behavior.
One of the signs of a manic episode is risky sexual behavior. This can include affairs, no matter how loyal the spouse has been in the past.
Now, comes the hard part.
Two questions:
1. How do you get someone diagnosed?
2. How do you help someone who doesn’t want
to be helped because they are manic?
As far as getting someone diagnosed while they are in an episode, you have to find a good doctor, or get them to a hospital, while they are acting out and the symptoms are obvious, so they can’t manipulate or “fool” the doctor.
As far as the other question, it’s a little more complicated. You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped.
The best you can do is try to get them to see that they do need help.
If you can’t do that, you are going to have to consider involuntary hospitalization, where you will have to hospitalize them against their will.
Have any of you had this experience?
What advice would you give this man?
Post responses below
I am in the same situation. My sister has been diagnosed with Dysthymia. But I have reecently evaluated her situation and feel she is Bipolar. Mamic episodes such as sex ouside the marriage, wild outbursts of fighting and arguing, blaming everyone for anything she can come up with, spending sprees and on and on. It is truley unfortunate, but the only relationship she has been able to withstand for her entire life (46years) is that with her son. Getting ready for her 2nd divorce. Does not want any ouside help from family – gets violent when we try to get involved.
The most frustrating thing for me is her doctors that I have spoken with are not able to talk to me about her condition. They tell me that she is an adult and it is her decision. I am now trying to get involved with her therapist. But my sister is a very good liar and/or she might not even realize what she has done. I run the risk of her shutting me out if I let her know what I think she has.
I’m not sure what to do next.
Hi.
This is the first time I am writing here. I support a husband who is bipolar and I have a 6 month baby. Only recently he told me about his condition when things became obvious. I had never heard of this before. Things became so bad as to reach the point of violence (in maniac episodes).
He refuses to go to the doctor, but I managed to get him there twice. Once there, he told the doctor I was nuts and needed care, possibly hospitalization. The doctor figured his problem after the second session so he never came back. He leaves home sometimes when he feels as he says “too happy to be around someone as pitiful as me”, because he claims I have a mean nature that mistreats him.
He told me his mother knows about the problem and encourages him to not get treatment and not tell me what is going on, so he feels it was a mistake to bring it forward to me.
I am sorry but I don’t have an answer to Rev Parsons. Maybe God does, although I don’t believe in God either… I am trying to take care of two children, myself and this other loved one (when he allows me to, which is rare).
I can definitely say that I have been there on more than one occasion.
I chose the option of involuntary hosptalization when things got really bad. My ex-husband’s brother and I had to trick him to get him to the hospital. Once there they held him down and sedated him. Before the drug took effect though he attempted to run away and jumped out a window about 15 feet high. That was one time.
He came off the meds convincing himself, he’s cured and many things happened in between.
I left the marriage because on the violence and stability and because of his ‘risky sexual behaviour’. But I found myself still concerned especially since we share two wonderful children.
He threatened to kill me etc. etc. and for the sake of everyone. I found back the doctor and went to see him with all the evidence of his bahaviour especially by phone text, and since the doctor knows his history, it wasn’t hard for me t convince him. The doctor called him and coaxed him to come in for an updated assessment letting him know that, if he’s well then it will only look good for him for custody. So he went to see the doctor and was placed back on medication which I am not sure he’s taking. But for now things are quiet again.
My best advice, is if she becomes a threat to herself or the unborn baby , then involuntary hospitalization is a ‘must do’. If it’s not a life threatening situation. Hang on a bit and wait for her to simmer down then try to talk to her about going to a counsellor in the form of a ‘doctor’ for the sake of her baby. If that doesn’t work, then get serious and let her know that her baby can be taken away if she doesn’t get the help she needs now.
Good Luck my friend.
Petrina
Try not to take the remarks personally because they don’t really mean what they’re saying while in one of these episodes.
I am dealing with being pregnant and off my meds. My husband does get blamed a lot and have had a rough time with this one. I have also told him to go but, then change my mind right afterward. Sometimes I feel really down but, I am trying to stay healthy and try to be the best mommy to my son now and my pregnancy. I am trying very hard not to take it out on my husband because I am off my meds and we have had our ups and downs but, he is still with me and we just pray that things are going to get better and keep loving each other. I hope this will help him and her with this situation.
The Rev needs to stand firm and take strong action NOW.
I have been through two major “manic” episodes with my wife and each cost our family many thousands of dollars that we can’t afford as well as nearly destroying our 25-year marriage.
She has 110% of the classic BP symptoms, has been diagnosed by several doctors, therapists and psychiatrists, yet she still maintains that there is NO problem – In mania, she is convnced that it is everyone ELSE’S problem.
I thought that I was showing loving care and concern by trying to UNDERSTAND and REASON with her but when the person is in mania, you are not talking to a rational, reasoning person – All my actions just ended up as ENABLING and in the end probably made matters worse.
There is a thing the doctors call “Anosognosia” where the patient not only doesn’t want to face the reality of their diagnosis (denial) but where he/she actually can’t see that there is a problem, even though it is staring them in the face.
What do you do in such a situation? – I can tell you that although I dearly love my wife if she has another episode and the denial/anosognosia continues, I WILL take strong legal action to protect our children and what financial resources we have left.
Sure I took vows to love and protect her and I still take thos very seriously but there comes a time for triage and I have to protect the helpless in this situation first – our three young children – The Reverend will soon be a father and he has to face the fact that if his wife does not get a firm diagnosis, does not start treatment (and he needs to know that even with the patient’s cooperation, and a solid diagnosis, it can take years to find the right medication combination) her condition WILL get worse – it has been proven that untreated BP causes actual physical damage to the brain, leading to MORE frequent, MORE severe and LESS-treatable “episodes”
Those will eventually werck his marriage, ruin him financially and hurt their child(ren) – He needs to hope and pray for the best but still to prepare for the worst.
One last point – being BP, the Reverend’s wife has a high risk of going into post-partum depression and even psychosis after their child is born – That can present a very real life-and-death danger to both mother and child. He and she need good, solid help NOW.
Being a religious person, the Reverend should google Dr Michael Lyles in Atlanta and get some of Dr Lyles’ DVD’s as well as David Oliver’s courses. Dr Lyles is a Christian psychiatrist who deals very compassionately with such mental disorders. There are also excellent books aailable to BP supporters on Amazon.com
I can respond to this one with a unique perspective — I was diagnosed bipolar when I had an episode of postpartum psychosis – no prior symptoms – postpartum onset bipolar. . . I was totally manic.
I am involved with a state support network and specialize in women’s perinatal/postpartum mood disorders, including bipolar. Ironically, my life was very “normal” prior to having a baby. In fact, 25-40% of women will first be diagnosed as bipolar postpartum, with many presenting as bad depression, psychosis, or OCD cases. People don’t realize the spectrum of disorders that can be seen during pregnancy and after delivery. . . I keep up with the research and am a licensed counselor by profession. I am concerned about this man’s wife, especially given that she is pregnant – her postpartum risk is very high and it needs to be watched closely – doctors will also frequently see women postpartum and always resort to a “depression” diagnosis, when in fact, there may be more going on that is missed.
I know what bipolar does to marriages – Husband of 12 years divorced me after a third episode . . . not a good ending. Best advice to this husband is to 1)Educate himself about the disorder using a variety of sources and people 2) understand that in a manic phase, people aren’t fully aware or in control of their behavior, which can be hard to handle and not take personally. 3) Everything a person says while manic makes PERFECT sense to them and prior to a diagnosis, people don’t recognize mania for what it is – all you know is it feels great to feel so great 4) Find a NAMI group in his area both for him and the wife. . . it may help her come to terms with the behavior and diagnosis. Our local group has a training/support group specifically for family members. 5) Get her to counseling if possible – creates a safer environment for exploring possible mood disorder concerns (and preferably someone who has expertise with bipolar). I believe medicine is needed, but it only goes so far – people still have to understand and integrate this illness in a way that makes sense to them. I think that’s where we miss the mark as professionals and family members. People still need cognitive work to learn how to cope with daily living. . . medicine is a piece of the puzzle but we miss the mark frequently by not incorporating other elements into the treatment of this disorder. Accepting this type of diagnosis can be very difficult because frankly, there’s still a great stigma around it and people don’t really understand it. What’s sad is how inept many counselors are in getting to an accurate diagnosis. . . and even if they do see the signs, it frequently isn’t well received by the client, at least not initially.
I do volunteer pro bono work and would be glad to offer input if useful. I just know what this does to families/marriages and hate to see it come to that when so much can be prevented. I’ve lived it and see many clients in my clinical practice who are affected by it. Hope that helps some. . .
Take care,
Jenny
Pls advise –“Leaving/Quitting Prescriptions after 10 years——–Advisability??–Problems??–Likelihood of success??—–Any and all suggestions–warnings–etc
How do you get your loved one to see that they need help? Do you cause a huge crash by a drastic measure such as leaving them? Where’s the line you draw with the affairs she is having, where does “support” for your spouse become co-dependency, are we enabling them?
How can we get them involuntarily committed? It can’t happen unless they are a threat to themselves or others. Risky sex with strangers doesn’t qualify…
I don’t have any answers, but I certainly have experienced all of this with my 24 year old son, so I’m very interested in anyone who has an answer to this. My son acts out and also uses street drugs making a bad situation very bad. I’ve had him picked up for suicidal talk and even had a court order to try to get him locked in. However, getting a doctor to name it anything other than the effects of drug use is a problem. Even then, rehab is not a lock-in place, so a patient can leave when they want. My son is in denial and refuses any help and considers being bipolar or even schizophrenic to being just crazy and he won’t consider the possibility, at least, not to any person. I’ve run into dead ends everywhere and have been doing so for years.If there’s any resources in Kansas that would be of any help, I would like to know about it.
YO…..
A guess you will just have to wait till ones in a downer. Then get one help. Or maybe strap em up and drag him or her to the quacks. Then they might think your the insane one. Eee well have said enough toodle pips.
LINDA X
I have never been pregnant, so cannot address that aspect of the Reverend’s email. However, I HAVE had three major manic episodes in my 20s that required hospitalization.
I guess you could call them “voluntary commitment” because, in a sense, I “signed” myself in. I was in my surgeon’s office when he told my parents “She needs REST!” and took me to the Psych Ward of the hospital where my major surgeries took place. I was then transferred “home” (in IL) to another psychiatric hospital (as a requirement for me going home with my parents), and was there three months.
The second hospitalization was different. I was under a LOT of stress, staying up all hours, laying in bed “thinking” I was sick (I was a Medical Records transcriptionist, and “assumed” I had all the symptoms I was typing about!); took part in risky sex; and finally passed out at work. The doctors put me in the ER and kept me overnight. The next day, I was driven in an ambulance to the University psych ward. I got sooo bad up there, that the Sheriffs had to drive me to the State Mental Hospital to DIE!! I guess you could call this “involuntary commitment” because I did NOT sign myself in; I just went along with the program.
The last hospitalization was different. I was “burning the candle at both ends,” and when BAD – and I mean VERY bad – things started to happen to dampen my euphoria and “good” feelings, I was SCARED straight, and signed myself into a psychiatric hospital.
It is my OWN opinion that God KNOWS when I need to be removed from society; to “get away” and get myself refreshed and out of harm’s way, so I DON’T fight hospitalization. I can usually tell when a BAD “trip” is about to land me in the psych ward, so I go without complaining.
The Reverend needs to do some “manipulation” of his own to get his pregnant wife to a psychiatrist before all Hell breaks loose with his wife. She may be in denial, but that WON’T help her baby…
BIG HUGS to all bipolar survivors and those who love us. May God bless you real good. I pray for my country.
I am 70 years old and suffer with Bipolar Disorder. My husband has been my supporter for 49 years of my life. After several years of marriage I had the second manic episode of my life. I was out of control so he took me to the mental hospital. There I was given “Shock Therapy” and released without correct diagnosis. Several years later I had another manic episode and was taken to “Riverside Hospital” in Virgina. There they had a Psychiatric Unit and a good doctor. I was diagnosed properly and prescribed the right medication for me.
Since that time I have been a good wife and assisted him in his Ministry. He is a PASTOR and good husband.
After about 25 years I had another manic episode. I truly felt that HE was my problem. Anyway, I was out of control. HE HAD TO CALL THE POLICE. THEY USHERED ME TO THE COMMUNITY PSYCHIATRIC UNIT. There I was monitored closely by a good doctor. My medication was changed and now for about 10 years I have lived a very successful life without any episodes.
At age 15 I had my first total collapse. My parents took me to 2 different hospitals for help. They couldn’t help me so I ended up in the state hospital in Columbia, S.C. There I received all the “shock therapy” that was allowed at that time. After this I was sent home and my parents were told to treat me as a well person since I had been treated for my problem and was well now. I was not well, but God was with me and enabled me to graduate from “High School” and then attend two years of “Bible College”. During the third year of College I realized I was not able to handle all the third year courses so I took only the courses I could handle and finished “Bible School” as a special student. It was at “Bible College” I met my husband.
hi Dave, the worst thing the husband can do is nothing. and your right during a manic episode the supporter will be dumped on repeatedly. It is vitally important the wife is seen by a doctor – because she is pregnant and the baby will also be at risk. My daughter fooled some of the best minds inthe mental health system until she finally went a step too far,and could be seen to be very mentally unwell, suffice to say at that moment I signedthe papers to have her involunterily hospitalised it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life – now my daughter is in recovery she no longer blames me for the act in fact I am grateful for that admission from her , I love my daughter.
Regards
Shona
I read again fully Jennys reponse and realise again why I continue to look up this blog, what happened to you Jenny , happened to my daughter.
the way you explain things is so helpful- so thanks for your respons eto the blog.
regards
Shona
My husband had a severe episode a few years ago and we got him to the emergency room. As he was lying on the bed and had several doctors to question him, he told them all it was 80% my fault that he was in this condition. Our daughter had to leave the room because we were both stunned by his insistence that I had done this to him. One of the doctors had a group of medical interns with him for observing and the doctor told my husband that “everything that you are going through, she’s going through it too”. He did recuperate after a change in medications and some therapy. He was told that he was manipulative. I have learned so much about this illness and it can tear strong families apart if not treated!
Carla:
If Mommy dearest knows about the problem and will not support you and her son with getting him to stay with meds and therapy….good luck…you will need it….she probably realizes that she could not manipulate and control him if he was obtaining the help he so desperately needs. Take care of your kids and yourself…If hubby refuses to see the light…ask him if he knows where the nearest suicide survivors support group meets…..cause you will be needing one in the future……
Patric;
To get off the “medication” you must do it showly, 10 Years is Ten too long.
Reduce the dosages by a small amount each week. If you just stop taking it, which is what the quacks want, you will have a withdrawal effect, & be worse than when the Genocidal Cult first FORCED it into you.
The withdrawal effect, of course they stste it is “an episode.” “& it proves you need the medicine for life.”
Just more LIES!
If on lowering the dose, you feel you are awakining too quickly, as I did, just raise it a little for a few days.
You know how you feel.
Also after weaning off all “medicines.”
I recomend Liquid Zeolite for 1 to 3 Months, it is Proven in Blood & Hair samples to rid the organism of Heavy Metals & Toxins.
Nothing in “psychiatry” is PROVEN benificial to the “consumer.”
Patric;
As ALL “psychiatric” “therapies” are PROVEN to cause Danage to the Frontal lobes, the Hippicampi, the Cerebruim…
Also such Brain Damages are WELL KNOWN to manifest in ALL the behaviours listed in the DSM.
So after 10 Years you like me may have one or two of the symptoms, listed in their self writen ever changing Bible, the DSM
Pat, since I got off ALL “medications” I no longer have tany “symptims.”
Not even the anger…
Their are NO statistics in the Diagnostic Statistics Manual? The DSM.
Troy,
You are playing a very dangerous game advising Patric to go off his meds. While the PDocs do not have all the answers, they do have some and the treatments are getting better all the time.
All the “natural cure” people will fill your head with suspicion of conventional medicine and deliver long lectures on how this root, that herb will help – how this or that toxin is really the cause.
There may be something in their stuff but it is LESS tested, LESS sure and MORE unknown than any “modern medicine” or therapy – Meanwhile you have a BP sufferers going manic and destroying themself and tose around them.
I have been fighting this in my wife for over 25 years and trust me, if she goes manic again, it WILL destroy our marriage and while I will do whatever necessary to protect our children, they WILL be hurt.
Do you really want someone like Patric to go through that just to support your distrust of the medical/psychiatric establihment?
My heart so goes out to you, as well as other supporters and all of those struggling to manage this tough disease.
(1) Her Gyn-OB might just be of suprising help.. no guarantee, but might be worth a phone call. The shifting hormones and other physiology can kick off all sorts of things, worsen bipolar, make the shifts more dramatic, etc. etc.
(2) Many of the medications should NOT be taken by women who are pregnant. Absolutely look any thing prescribed up before she takes anything, as well as discuss with the doctor. Sometimes people are so ill, it has to be done. A regular walking program (even just 20 minutes 3 times a week) has been proven in numerous studies with sound statistics to even eliminate depression altogether. Bipolar disease is a slightly different animal, so results may not be quite as dramatic.
(3) It may be worth consulting with a naturopathic pharmacist or nutritionist. The B-vitamins found in leafy greens can very much help symtpoms as well. Similarly completely eliminating soda pop, sugary foods, MSG which is NOT just in chinese food and other chemicals can make a big difference. It’s worth going back to a diet of primarily fresh fruit, veggies, turkey and fish more than beef, nuts, beans for a couple weeks to a month and diarying emotions. If and when you add back in the “junk” or “fun” food, also diary results, keeping in mind sometimes the effect doesn’t show for 48 hours.
Like Jenny, i’m a psychotherapist. I found her letter very helpful and would encourage you to copy off her letter and others to refer to. This is not a “fixable” disease as Dave so regularly reminds us, it’s a matter of learning how to live with it. And it really is possible.
When our friend/family member is in the depths of either depression or mania, it may be impossible to talk with them; there are “windows of opportunity”. If you are mindful of that, the moments will present themselves when they really are open to suggestions, the often frustrating job of finding a therapist AND psychiatrist who “get it”
Meds are both amazing and incredibly frustrating. While they can be life saving, they are altering neuro (head/emotions/mental) physiology and sometimes in 6 months that neurophysiology will be “reset” and the person never needs meds again. Others seem to really need them life long, requiring fairly often changing meds, altering doses. And sometimes the side effects totally suck. Especially for men, the meds can cause TEMPORARY physiological/emotional/mental inability or desire for sex. Pretty hard to be a man and know this !! A good psychiatrist will work with you on your sexuality, whether male or female (we get to have a sex drive too !!!) and there are some meds who effect sexuality less than others.
Sorry this is so long, but hope it’s helpful !!
Ok,
Her’s the answer and I’m sure it parallels Dave’s courses and advice:
If you are a BP sufferer’s spouse/parent/loving friend. you need a combination of several things to all work together – You need to:
BE STRONG – You will be called every name in the book, accused of all sorts of things, threatened with whatever he/she thinks will hurt you most Remember through all this, it is the “condition” talkng, not the person you love.
GET HIM/HER ON MEDS – Do this whatever way you can. Of course, it helps to get the person to accept the diagnosis (and if necessary to find doctors/therapists with enough experience to make that Dx) – To get through the denial/anosognosia. It may take some time to find the right dosage and ombination. Everybody’s brain chemistry is different.
GET HIM/HER INTO THERAPY – This has to support the medication – neither will work completely by themselves. Find the right therapist, someone who has dealt with this befor. Someone who can connect with the BP sufferer. – that may take some doing but its critical.
GET HIM/HER into a healty lifestyle – Cut back on sugars, coffee, alcohol. Get him/her exercising – sleep driven by REAL physical tiredness is a great restorer.
WHEN THINGS GO WRONG – Get back up and hit it again. It will not be easy, it will take long. He/she needs to stay on meds for the rest of their life – just like a diabetic has to take his/her insulin. BP is not curable but it IS treatable and managable.
TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF – If you start falling apart you’re not much good to anyone. Get rest, sleep, exercise. Eat well. Get your own therapy. Join NAMI. Get support – from friends, family, spiritual mentors, support groups. You cannt do it all by yourself. Educate yourself on the disease. There is a huge amount of information available.
One more thing…
Don’t give in tho the “I’m better now. That’s all past. My meds make me feel so strange/constipated/whatever. I’m sure we can cut back on them now”
DO NOT GIVE IN. BP sufferers are incredibly manipulative – That manipulation extends to themselves. They WILL convince themselves that they are cured – Absent a dramatic breakthrouh THERE IS NO CURE.
Be strong. Think what another manic episode will cost in stress, hurt, money to yourself, the BP sufferer and those around him/her.
Even if caught early, the episode WILL cause damage. It’s just not worth the risk.
yesterday my guy with bi polar told me he has a sex problem. that when im not around, he seeks for other people and its something hes working on. he have a problem committing to one person. and because he didn’t want to lose me, he didn’t tell me the truth. what does bi polar have to do with sex? how much affect does it have on bi polar?
Do NOT appreciate having my comment rewritten.. it does NOT express what I’d written. If whoever did the rewrites has a problem with length, tell me, let me rewrite.. this is really unacceptable
sigh.. ok, so I’m new to current format and misread.. please accept my apology.. I really did mean all that stuff I read !!!
Hello. I have never responded to these but once. My finance is Bi polar. It’s been five years now. We had a manic episode the other night. He self medicates with a substance along with his Lithium. I think the extra smoke makes his lithium not work and makes him forget to take it on time. Same thing as everyone else…doesn’t think anything is wrong, won’t go to doctors and when non manic is always dying and world is falling apart. But during the manic episode he was very violent with me called me names, everything is my fault, I am to move out because I am worthless on and on. Before I knew to much about this we moved several times. But same story everytime we do…people there are great then all of a sudden hey suck and everyone is watching him and they don’t appreciate his skills and he quits and moves. Well along the way I have to work also. And I have lost very good jobs because of it. Not until recently did I understand it all was to do with his bi-polar. On his manic episode the violence was enough this time to make me wonder if I can ever truly do this all the way anymore. It was shoving and pushing me against a wall and bruises on my arms and face then 2 days later all forgotten? I can’t forget. I have guilt because my teenage daughters are with their dad because before I knew it was all this I lost my house and job due to the economic times and now I am here with this and they are there without me because I followed him believing and not knowing all the this would happen. I let my ex have them because I had no home anymore to take care of them and like I said I though at the time in different terms.
So, I am in an emotional spiral for myself and feeling guilty for the kids, for not understanding him and feeling this way and not wanting to help anymore. I feel bad
I don’t have the answers anymore and no way to be on my own either. The job I have now is a good one and again talk of departure is being held over my head daily. But This time I can not go even if I am homeless if it comes to it. How do I cope? how do I help? Is there help now that he “helps”himself with the self medicating? Do they get worse with age? ( he is 47) Can the violence be dealt with? Every med they put him on for this makes him worse or he abuses them for a high.
I have no insurance yet and no way to see someone myself to help me. So I am trying to get answers best I can. Again I feel so bad for how I feel. I should help. I am the one to do it since he can not nut at the same time I am out of steam for him and myself. Thank you to all who answer.
Like most of the responses here I can relate, its just that I do so because I am bi-polar, and at this very moment in a life changing episode!!! I know what I am and yes I do have supporters, when I let them. I don’t know if any one knows what I mean by that??? I wish I could explain, but right now I just cant. David maybe you can?? Anyway I do feel for both the Rev. and his wife, and the one thing I have to add is often after Ive done things that the people close to me tell me about, or that once Im in my right mind {which is debatable that I ever am ?? I am & have not been on meds for a long time,Yes I know I should be, Im not good at such things. I also only recently gave up on self medicating; Heroin, thank GOD. } I realize what Ive put the ones I love thru it hurts inside like nothing else, and I cant take it back that makes me just want to spare them some how? My self esteem bottoms out. Two steps forward five back!!!! Sorry if I don’t make much sence I am trying. I don’t know if this will help any of you supporters, maybe just some insight?, what I can say w/ confidence is thank GOD for YOU more of us would die w/ out you all!!! And David, thank you for being, and doing what you do, we all need this! A side note, in responding here I have helped myself a lot, that’s one thing that my mom does for me{she didnt know what to do or how to deal w/ me when I would call her completely hysterical and ready to die, so she would ask me in a calm soft voice to describe to her what I was going thru, as best as I could. Now at first this made me even more adjetated, but after I tried one time as best as I could I realized I had calmed down so much that my dangerous thoughts were gone and I was not all over the place in my head, I felt so much better!! Much like now, {this is a first for me, not the writing cuz I write all of the time or I used to, in a journal, however I found that it wasnt helpful as most of what I wrote was so damb deppressing this is different.} I better stop now or it will turn to phsyco-babble or has it already???? Well good luck to you, I hope the best for everyone.
Hi all. Well, I don’t write here very often, but do read the messages every day and they are really helpful! (Thanks again David). My heart goes out to all supporters and sufferers alike, but like Cindy here today, I have reached the end of my rope, so to speak.
Nothing I have tried to do or say has been successful in getting my husband to take medication or go for therapy, treatment etc. We have been together for 28 years, most of which he has cycled through manic and depressive episodes. He has had many extra-marital affairs and one night stands. He abuses alcohol on a daily basis. I have been through many violent and abusive sessions with him and he blames me for it all, including his infidelities. Now that our children are almost grown up, they have also become a target for his violent outbursts. The level of violence and agression during these outbursts towards them and myself has been escalating. The kids and I have been seeing a psychologist for a year now, and I have done so much reading up on Bi-polar in order to educate myself and the kids so as to be able to help my husband, but it is of no use because he will not listen. In our country, we have to involve the police for involuntary hospitalisation and this can only be done when the person is becoming dangerous to themselves or others. They would then arrest the person and the court would have to issue an order for the involuntary hospitalisation to be done. Sounds like something out of the dark ages and certainly not a viable option for us right now! I love my husband very much and it is with a heavy and broken heart that I have started divorce proceedings against him. This I have done, to preserve the sanity of myself and my kids and to protect us from the aggression and violence which has been happening on a weekly basis for the last 18 months.
I cannot trust my husband to remain faithful nor can I believe most of the things he says any more, because it is becoming more and more difficult to distinguish between the truth and lies that he speaks. I wish you all the best and bless you Dave, for the outstanding work you do for sufferers and supporters alike.
First of all, the Rev. should not assume that his wife’s doctor did not tell her that her symptoms, if she told the truth about them, were not those of bipolar disease. Secondly, depending on her symptons and actions, he can do go to his local coroner’s office and tell the person in charge of such things, what is going on and they will send the police out to pick her up and commit her for however number of days are allowed in his state. She will not be able to hide mania that long and she will get the correct diagnosis during that time. This is what I had to do to get my husband diagnosed and under treatment the first time and it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my entire life. If anyone reading this must do this, be sure to keep it a secret from everyone, including any family members who may tell the patient. That could make it very dangerous if the person is violent. There may be another way to commit a person where the Rev. lives. This just happens to be the way in my area, and our internist told me how to do it. Rev., please get help for your wife and baby. She will hate you at first, but later on she will thank you. But believe me, that thank you will be a long time coming. God bless you and your precious family.
gigz:
Hyper-sexuality, risky behavior, infidelity are VERY much part of bipolar.
BP sufferers can also be very manipulative (I should know, I have lived with one for many years). Unless your boyfriend is prepared to accept tratment and to remain 100% medication-compliant for the REST OF HIS LIFE, get out now. He will promise you all these things (and probably mean it) but there is little or no way to know if that will last very long.
Cindy,
If it was just you in your abusive situation, I would say “get out” – Because there are children involved, even if they spend most of their time at ther dad’s place, I say “Get out NOW!”
Whatever this guy has to offer, it is not worth the trauma that your children WILL suffer seeing their mother verbally and physically abused.
BP sufferers can be incredibly charming when stable or even a little manic but it WILL NOT stay that way – They cannot help themselves and many don’t see any problem that needs help. They just don’t see the harm they cause.
I stood by my wife for many years, tried to help and understand but now that our children are in their teens, I can see how they have suffered. Unless she accepts treatment, accepts that there is a problem, is 100% medication-compliant (I will want proof and it will HAVE to be so for the rest of her life) the next time she goes manic, I will have her removed from the house – Not sure where she will go, obviously I’d prefer somewhere she can get treatment and care but the PRIME focus will be on protecting the children and putting space between them and their manic-depressive mother.
Even if it means becoming homeless, moving to a shelter, wherever – You need to get away from that situation, you owe it to yourself but most of all you owe it to your kids.
Lots of stress to family. There is no other disease or illness that causes this much stress or money to family. Most likely the Rev’s wife has a co-occurring personality disorder. The personality disorders are 100 times worse that bipolar. And when the two are mixed together it is 1000 times worse. Manipulation is a classic sign of mania and narcissism. Denial is a classic sign of not being rational. Delusions are not often obvious to the doctors and psychologists – that is why the ONLY way to deal with a family member with bipolar is to be able to go to the doctor with them. I really think that bipolar disorder and the co-occurring personality disorders cost our society more problems than any other single thing. I love the line “I’m cured” – you know they are at their worst when they pull that line. There has to be tougher laws that people can be forced into treatment and must take their medications and the right ones, especially when children are involved.
I was very sorry to read about this situation and how symptoms of bipolar disorder are causing this husband and wife such pain.
It is totally understandable that her behaviors, regardless of the fact that they are influenced by an illness, are extremely trying to her husband. I can only extend my compassion.
However, I do not believe for a moment that the patient with bipolar disorder is responsible for a psychiatrist’s missing the diagnosis which her family identifies.
It is pointed out with absolute clarity that the pastor considers her delusional, that she is just not in her right mind, that what she says cannot be trusted, and that this confused state of mind renders her unable to function safely.
I would not ever question his perception, as he is the person suffering, and he is the person who is watching this chaos unfold. I completely believe him, and it is true that an intense manic episode can cause anyone to lose their capacity for rational thought.
However, I do have some feelings about how he (and others) call her, or “them,” meaning many or all people who have bipolar disorder, “manipulative,” having already convinced me that this ill person is not in her right mind.
In order to attempt to manipulate another person by behaviors and actions, that person, that patient we reconize to be delusional, would need to be able to possess at least a minimal degree of rational thought.
It is not consistent with the state of mind described here for that person who is so far out of control to suddenly stop those terrible symptoms on their own for the sake of a doctor’s appointment. It takes the ability to reason, and to act strategically to “manipulate” another person.
I completely understand holding the person with bipolar disorder responsible for any action or harm they cause, regardless of what symptoms might have influenced them.
I do not for one moment blame the patient for the fact that a doctor either missed the diagnosis, or has not come to the same conclusion her family has.
It isn’t her fault. If there is so little confidence in this psychiatrist, I would URGE them to find another one. If you believe a relative, especially one who is as obviously and dangerously ill as this woman, has been able to fool an expert, then you’re talking to the wrong expert. For yourself, for the person you love, find someone else.
But no patient is responsible for a doctor’s error or inattention. Even if they truly are capable of “manipulating,” “lying,” etc.
There is no reason, ever, that any patient, including everyone who has ever been to a doctor, is responsible for what a trusted professional does. NONE of us, whether we have bipolar disorder or heart disease, deserve the blame for medical mistakes.
It would be no more reasonable of me to hold the pastor responsible for what his wife did. Nobody can control what any other person does.
She’s responsible for the mess she makes. But there’s a limit. Her doctor is there to help her. He failed. She didn’t scheme him.
Luke-J, and giz
You know some people who have treated you terribly in your lives! I understand that.
But I wonder why you generalize? Giz, your boyfriend is out of hand sexually. I gave you some honest, hard-hitting feedback about that in response to another e-mail.
You reason that because this boyfriend, who has hurt you, and continues to hurt you, and…I would guess will continue to hurt you is so hurtful to you that out-of hand sexual behavior is just something we “bipolars” all do as part of our lifestyle.
I tried to state this to you in a helpful way when you were pretty well fed up with this guy. He’s abusive. If everything you’ve said about him is true, I would URGE you with everything in me to GET AWAY. You might even be in danger, Giz. You must be having a hard time making up your mind, but as I said last time, I would not wait.
Yes, hypersexuality is a symptom of a manic episode. Poor judgment, impulsivity, irrational thinking.
Even the fact that it is a symptom doesn’t mean every person with bipolar has ever even had it. It means it’s possible, and in some cases it’s common.\
It is also possible to have that symptom, but not to act on it. People with bipolar disorder have varying degrees of self control when they are acutely symptomatic.
Meaning—did you ever really feel like you wanted to have sex, but you knew it was a bad idea…so, no matter how bad you wanted to, you made the choice not to. That way, you didn’t do anything unhealthy for yourself or anyone else!
We, people who have this condition, can do that too. And in my experience, I’m one person, but it’s been a lifetime with this illness, I read and hear a whole lot more of it than I have ever experienced.
Plus, Giz, this guy is playing you, and you know he is. Bipolar disorder does not make people treat other people like garbage.
I think you believe that because the situation you’re in is so miserable, and it makes sense to you to blame every rotten, mean, miserable, dishonest thing he does to you on Bipolar Disorder.
And for everyone else here too, I completely believe eveything you are saying, your suffering, being abused, having crimes committed against you, losing all your money, being lied to….I believe you, and I think it’s awful, unimaginable.
But at the same time, if I knew absolutely nothing else about bipolar disorder, but I came here to see what your concerns were, I’d think every person in the world who has bipolar disorder is a liar, an abuser, a theif, a sexual deviant, and in general, that ALL of us, not just “the ones you know” are to be avoided. I’d run in the opposite direction everytime I saw “them!”
I have a lot of compassion and I extend as much understanding as I have. Guys, to put it plainly—everybody with bipolar disorder just isn’t behaving like the folks you know are.
If you go by an experience with “one of them” and let that determine how you size up every other person who has this disorder, is that fair?
Just asking the question. I don’t expect anything from you. You have your own things to cope with.
Wishing all of us the best
J
Jane,
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression but I never meant to generalize – I know that there are meny BP sufferers who accept their Dx, get treament, stay med-compliant and get on with their lives.
My beef is with those who will not see the hurt and destruction they cause to those who love and care for them.
Luke-John,
Thank you for your response. No apology necessary.
I hope for you, and everyone here hurt by bipolar symptoms, that the peace I have now will be in your futures.
All the best,
J
Awesome blog you have here but I was wanting to know if you knew
of any community forums that cover the same topics discussed in this article?
I’d really love to be a part of group where I can get feedback from other knowledgeable people that share the same interest. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks!