First HAPPY FATHERS DAY.
How’s it going? I hope you are doing well.
I have to go pretty quick today because I have to go to a brunch with my dad and then I am going hiking.
Actually I am going to take some photos and post them tomorrow on my blog if I can get it all figured out.
Well I am happy to report that I hired another person. A most unusual person. This person has about 6 different disorders and she is EXCELLENT!
That’s an understatement. I get a lot of emails that stay how it’s impossible to work with those with a mental illness, they are “crazy”, I am crazy for hiring people with a mental illness so on and so forth.
This is why I wanted to let you know about my new hire. She does amazing work.
Anyway, I was all set to write a daily email on another topic but I looked at the blog comments over here:
http://www.bipolarcentral.com/bipolarsupporterblog/?p=30#comments
IMPORTANT FREE PODCAST
There is a f.ree podcast that goes along with this daily email. Hear it over here:
http://bipolarcentral.libsyn.com/
I saw one post by Garry and had to address it. He wrote:
“Dear David,
I understand that what you have done for your mother is a sincere and wonderful thing, to devote so much to a loved one who needs help without asking is truly a great thing.
I do wonder though that if someone doesn’t want help like some people have said here that maybe that could also be an answer, I dont like to be a person who comes along and says this is wrong and that is wrong but if the person with the problem doesnt want help then maybe it shouldnt be given,
Im not saying that when its not given to be a cold person but in general just be there and offer support and an ear when needed, love for a love one or friend is a given. My friend has been diagnosed with this disorder
and I know how it effects her, it cuts me up when I see it and hear how she is so low.
I’m sorry if I sound aggressive in with my post but its just that I’m at a point now where I feel I cant do anymore to help my friend, I feel as though I have already let her down because I’m out of things to say to her that can make her feel better without personally thinking I’m going round in circles repeating the same things.
Lately I have said to her that if this is a problem that wont go away then maybe you should try and accept it and take in as a part of you, I know she enjoys the mania.. explosive shopping spree’s, wild nights out and other such things but would you say that saying to her when the depression comes to just go with it and let it ride?
I know how tactless that sounds but I’m only trying to help, nobody will listen to her because they think she is mad. Ive said mad people can have the most fun? I sympathies with her because I too feel that I have this disorder but to what degree I don’t know, I know what its like to be really down and then some days later up again.
Its exhausting as you must know. I dont know what else to say really other than asking for tips? Sorry to sound narky.”
Then Garry wrote: Do people get any response to what they have wrote? Anyone here?
I wanted to address Garry’s post because a lot of people have this question.
But first I wanted to say to people who post on the blog, sometimes people post responses but many times, people just read posts. I however read ALL the posts along with many people who work for me. I use these posts to determine what kind of content we focus on. Some I address personally. Other posts other people address.
Anyway, enough of that.
Basically Garry is asking, what do you do when someone with bipolar disorder appears to need help but doesn’t want it.
This is a VERY important question. It’s a question that millions of people have every day.
It’s something that I feel strongly about.
I am going to tell you what I think.
I think that if a person doesn’t want treatment, you have to try really, really hard using a wide variety of strategies and tactics to get them into treatment. Period.
There is NO one answer. There is no one magic solution that I have ever found and I have been looking for years and have more than 200,000 people on my list that I can draw from.
There are at least 25 strategies you can try to use that do NOT involve involuntary commitment.
After you try the something like 25 different strategies in getting someone into treatment and really put a tremendous effort into it, then I feel it’s okay to give up.
Make sure you listen to my f.ree podcast for further information on this.
You may think it’s confusing but it’s not. Think of it this way. I have found at least 25 proven techniques that you can use.
You look at the techniques and you try to determine which one will work. You try it, then another and so on and so forth. Eventually in most cases, one will work.
In my main courses/systems bipolar supporter course below, I go through all the techniques that I learned and learned from others on how to get someone into treatment.
In my course for those with bipolar disorder, I talk at length along with all the success stories of what you need to have in place to make sure if you go into a bipolar episode your supporters can easily get you into treatment.
SUPPORTING AN ADULT WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
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With supporting children or teenagers it’s different because by law you can get them into treatment because you are in charge of them and they are not adults. However, there are many ways that children with bipolar disorder can manipulate the system and get out of treatment even if they are not adults.
It’s kind of amazing. Normally the system doesn’t understand what bipolar disorder really is and children can get out of treatment and wind up getting the parents into serious trouble. I cover this in my course above.
These issues are indeed complex and a simply daily email can’t give you all the answers.
I don’t mean to be evasive it’s just the way it is.
There is no question, getting a loved one into treatment is a tough thing. I have noticed that I have seen many doctors asked, “How do I get my loved one into treatment if he/she doesn’t want to go.” The doctor stalls, talks in circles and eventually says it’s “hard” and you really “can’t.” They normally talk about the requirements for involuntary commitment– which generally requires the person be a danger to him/herself or to others.
In my opinion and based on my experience there are a number of ways to get someone into treatment without using involuntary commitment but it requires hard work and a lot of time and trial and error.
Like I said, I have found no magic person, place, organization, statement, or strategy that works all the time. I am just being 100% honest.
I have found lots of options that could work. Many people think that a person should want treatment and just go.
You see, many people forget that when a person is ill, he/she is not in their right mind. So they make decisions that are not sound and do and say things they would never do or say if they were well.
As a result things like suicide, homicide, homelessness, bankruptcy, and many other bad things.
Many people in major bipolar episode think they are 100% fine and doing great.
Has anyone ever had the experience that a loved one was totally out of their minds and saying they were fine?
Please relate your experiences. I actually have to take off now and get ready. I will write more about this in the upcoming week.
IMPORTANT FREE PODCAST There is a f.ree podcast that goes along with this daily email. Hear it over here:
http://bipolarcentral.libsyn.com/
David Oliver is the author of the shocking guide “Bipolar Disorder—The REAL Silent Killer.” Click Here to get FREE Information sent via email on how and why bipolar disorder kills.
Post responses below
YES – HAVE A HAPPY FATHER’S DAY!! In response to Garry’s post, “tough love” IS difficult. As Dave said in his email, getting a child/teenager into treatment SHOULD be easier than it is. However, they can be SO manipulative, and say and do ANYTHING to avoid conflict or institutionalization.
With adults, it IS harder. Sometimes the supporter has to put on a “thick skin” and toughen it out with their bipolar loved one. Refuse to “enable” the survivor until they come to the realization that they have hit “rock bottom” and seek help. As I have said before – my 2nd and 3rd hospitalizations, I checked myself in because of FEAR. The manic “high” was GREAT, but too many BAD things were starting to happen – sexual promiscuity, a friend driving my car who totalled it, physical abuse by that same friend. I KNEW I was in trouble, BIG-TIME. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a “wake-up call” to get your loved one into treatment.
Self-medicating CAN be a very big problem, too. Drinking and smoking weed can interfere with any medications a psychiatrist has you on, and you don’t want to KNOW the side effects. I was a problem drinker for 30 years, but quit in 1999 when I was put on new meds, for fear they would interact in a bad way. It is NOT the SMART thing to turn to alcohol and/or drugs to relieve whatever symptoms the bipolar person has. Getting them into the right treatment plan, IS.
I have been “stable” for 31 years; before that, I had 3 hospitalizations for mania. Although I DO miss the manic “highs,” they are NOT worth the effort, believe me. The “crash” that ALWAYS comes after, leaves the bipolar survivor AND the supporter all the worse for wear.
I wish ALL fathers a day when you can “kick back” and relax on this, their SPECIAL day.
To GARRY and BRENDA: Check out Dave’s email for the 15th; I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
I actually have a comment about people working with bipolar. I have multiphasic cycling bipolar, which is a bit hard to treat. I have been a truck driver for 11 years. People wanted me, years ago to file for disability and not work, so I did. It made me worse! It wasn’t long into it that I became a truck driver and have been working, with medication, to control myself. Having a sense of purpose in life has helped me tremendously. I think anyone with bipolar should be out there doing something, anything. If not for my descision I know I would have been lost forever. Thank u dave for ur e mails, I get them on my blackberry. Very informative.
Happy Father’s Day to all of you Father’s out there. I’m so happy to see your posts again, Suzanne. I’ve gained much from all of your other posts.
It’s a tough illness and your posts give me hope. I wish my best to all sufferers and supporters.
Hi. Happy Father’s day to all of you dads out there!
I am the sole supporter of a bi-polar spouse. I have to tell everyone I’m feeling pretty low. After reading “2+2=5” I realized why living with my rapid cycling husband is SO FATIGUING! It’s because to make this equation work, I either need to give twice: (2+3=5) or I need to give three times: (1+4=5) On days like today, I feel like I need to have the equation make sense: (2+2=4) so I will just emotionally remove myself from the situation and disappear. Does this sound chicken to anyone? I read all the posts about how to be supportive, but frankly…someday I don’t know why I should keep going. I don’t know if there is enough of ME to make that particular bi-polar equation work. It’s not much of a life, if I feel like evaporating…..
…..almost outta here, after ten years of trying my darndest……..Thanks for letting me vent.
Happy Father’s Day. I have to say i am one of the few that wanted to get help for my bp. I wanted to better myself not just for me but for my children. My 4 year old i think has the same disorder but i can’t really tell yet. And my father i know has it but he doesn’t think of himself that way. So in my family i think it is past down from generation to generation> Is that possible to be hereditary??? Like i said i wanted to get help but ya see i don’t have any support from any1 they all turned there backs on me. I think it’s because they don’t understand. Is there any one who can tell me if this is hereditary?? Thanks.
Yes, Sonya, bipolar disorder (or any mental illness, for that matter) CAN be passed down through the genes. When I was first diagnosed with what they called “schizophrenia” in 1968, I began to wonder about my parentage. I am adopted, so therefore, it became a quest.
After all my adopted family had passed on, I went looking for my biological mother. As fate would have it, I located her in 2003. At first, we corresponded, and I asked her if there was any mental illness in our family tree. She told me that my maternal grandfather was paranoid schizophrenic!! THERE was the LINK!! I was NOT a “bad” person; there was a REASON!
Fortunately, my three siblings (by the same mother and father) have no signs of mental illness; leave it up to the first-born to exhibit the traits of bipolar disorder. I “took it for the team!” My two younger brothers and sister are perfectly “normal,” and the whole family has accepted me just as I am. Talk about blood being thicker than water!
Although the “facts” are not conclusive that bipolar IS hereditary, there is a GREAT likelihood that it IS. I suggest you look for help from a Community Mental Health provider, not only for yourself, but your son as well.
Take care, and my prayers are with you.
I have a friend who gets highly sexed when she’s hypomanic. (I suppose she’s on the scale between hypo and with mania – Type 1 and Type 2 definitions seem very misleading given there is a huge gap between them!) Her shrink had said she is a sex addict. So, she’s found the answer, she says, and become a high class hooker! Do the job you love, and make money at it too! There’s no telling her, she’s off in the world of the faieries at the moment. I guess she’ll come down with a bump eventually.
I’ve repeated it before: It’s as a book on psychosis said, The neurotic thinks they are mad, the psychotic knows they are not. But I suppose there is something to be said for being in full mania – at least you’re happy in there: The type 1’s don’t check out as much as the Type 2’s, not do they live most of their time in depressions or mixed states.
B ut personally, I’d never give up the medication because I believe I have been down as far as you can go with a depression, and I never want to go there again! I’ll take the meds, even if they’d kill me eventually, I’d take ’em anyway!!!
Dear David:
I have been reading you emails for about 2 1/2 years now. I have a son with Bipolar disorder along with anxiety disorder and ocd. I felt very alone when first dealing with this. When he was little, I first thought that he had a form of terrets. small vocal noises. That soon left. He has ADD and had no hyperactivity. Medicine helped him tremendously in the fourth grade. He did well until his first concussion. My son wrestles and has since the age of 9. His first concussion came in the 6th grade. A fairly major episode. I don’t think he ever fully recovered from that. He plugged along and did well until his second concussion in the 8th grade. That is when things really started to change. A week later he suffered another hit in the head. I think that is when he really went down hill. He has has seen a therapist since he was in the third grade due to the anxiety he felt when he found our daughter floating on top of the pool cover. (By the way she was ok). That helped him, but never pulled him through everything he felt. He saw 5 different psychiatrist and not one was willing to diagnose him. I always hated those 10 minute sessions when all they did was give him a new med. I always felt that there was something more going on with him. When he was starting the 10th grade, we made the jump to put our son into a residential treatment facility. He was starting to spin our of control and no one was willing to step up to help him. The doctors just kept throwing him on new medicines, and not even the right doses. The hardest thing I have done in my life time was putting my child in a residential treatment facility. He was there for 11 months. In the time that he was there, I found a doctor in Philadelphia who was willing to treat my son when he came home, and a doctor in Utah that was very productive for him. My son new why he was going away from us and new that he needed help. He cried the night before he left because he was so scared and confused. He wanted help in the worst way. He is such a great individual, caring, loving, and willing to do what he needs. In the school that he was in he got great therapy and care. He was 15 when he went in and almost 17 when he came out. He is an incredible child, or young adult. We have gone to great lengths to get my son the help he needs. His doctor in Phila is a 4 hour drive for us, but he is so good for my son, and my son feels out of control or depressed, he asks me to make an appointment for him. He knows what it is like to feel good and really bad. Last week, my son graduated from highschool. I felt so over whelmed and proud of him for how hard he has worked to get to where he is. He is going to college in the fall and chose to stay close to home so if he has trouble with meds or his bipolar we are there to help him. He works a full time job landscaping and is learning how to overcome the ups and downs of having bipolar. I know that bipolar is a very hard disease to work with, but if you help your loved one, you can get through it. I will say that some days are definately more challenging than others. Actually somedays I just hate. I have 4 children. My oldest has bipolar, and my youngest was born with many disabilities. I don’t know how anyone can give up on there child or loved one even in the hardest times. That is when they need someone the most. I often ask why God put me here. I just imagine that I am here to get my children through the roughest time in their life. David, you are right having the right doctor and the right therapist is so crucial in helping someone with bipolar. I drive 4 hours to see my sons doctor. I would go to the ends of the earth to help him. My husband is so happy and proud to see where my son is. He finally understands that bipolar is a mental illness and our son has it. I think the hardest thing for us was to accept that our son has this mental illness. Especially given the stigma associated with mental illness. Whoever is reading this, don’t ever give up on you children or loved one. Life is hard enough in this day and age. Take the time to see what and who works best for them. It will surely pay off in the end. Thanks for listening.
Suzanne, Thank you very much for your insight i really appreciate it. Ya see i have no one to talk to about this stuff and you have been so helpful to me today also thank you for your prayers. At this point i really need a lot of them. Also thank you for sharing your story with me. Good luck to you as well and you will be in my prayers as well.
I sympathise with those who find it hard to get their loved one to admit to having a problem. Mine does it all the time, or rather he blames other people, other illnesses (incluing smoking) or other issues – he refuses to continue to take medications for his heart although he has heard the bad prognosis from the doctor. He totally blanks out when I talk to him about in a positive manner and try to lift his negative moods with lots of smiles and “feel good” words of encouragement. All he admits to is feeling “down” now and then, but doesn’t conceed that his spending habits, constantly eating out and making what I think are “silly” business propositions (he offered an enormous amount of money for a house, when he does not even have 10% of that value for a deposit(I believe, he doesn’t anyway)! He was enormously upset with mum when she refused to act as his guarantor (she lives on a pension and her only asset is her home). Naturally she is fearful of a future where she migh end up losing her home and I know he will not ask me for any more money because in the past I helped him out a lot. I haven’t yet found a way to make him budget and plan in a sensible manner but his current episode has lasted for 2 months now and he is not even talking to mum. My prayers go with him and with anyone else who is constantly trying to help him. that’s about all I can offer for now.
PS In Australia, Father’s Day is in September, but for all Dad’s there, best belated wishes!
My husband died after in the span of one month of medication,first Seroxat ,then Xanax.He was treated for depression and anxiety.A manic episode was triggered and he jumped in psychosis from our fifth floor,having as a delusion that he was fired and made mistakes as an engineer.He suffered severe withdrawal symptoms after my investigations.His irritability for details concerning order and his impossibility to perform in his work make me think his hypomania had worsened and then he went to see a psy.after 37 years of hard work. I discovered by all this searching he was never diagnosed for what he had and in fact he needed anti-psychotics.Even if he had a depression it was wrong to treat him only with Xanax because his anxiety worsened.There were clear symptoms of spending sprees and delusion,so I am sure the medecine triggered a manic episode and worsened the course of the illness.Two beloved under-aged children are involved and to my opinion an accident happened and not a suicide because there was panic and confusion of time and place .Thanks for your work.
I am disappointed after reading this email because I am facing this issue, and I did not gather any real information from it! Really, it just continues to ponder the same question throughout without providing any solid answers. Frankly, I feel that the emails in this series are long and chatty but do not contain much useful information thus far. Sorry, but that is my opinion.
you seem to repeat information over and over. are you bipolar?
you seem to be bipolar yourself
I am one of those who usually just reads the daily email, takes in the information, then goes on with my day. But I just had to respond to David’s question:
“Has anyone ever had the experience that a loved one was totally out of their minds and saying they were fine?”
Yes … my sister was diagnosed with bipolar disorder a couple of years ago. About a year after that, her husband passed away. For the first couple of months after his death, she lived with us and she was taking her medication and seemed to be doing really great.
Then after we (my husband and I and my parents) helped her move out, get her own place, get established etc, she cut off all communication with her friends and family, started smoking cigarettes and marijuana, drinking, sleeping around, etc (very out of character for her) and then took off and took a job out of state. We didn’t hear from her for several months – Then we heard she moved on to another State on the other coast, in a job that would not allow her to work there if she were taking the medication she should be taking.
She is my baby sister and we all worry about her every day but she says she is “fine”.
I write her and ask her to get herself well, to get back on her medication but it feels hopeless.
Hi just wanted to let you know that I like your site, I came across it while surfing around Google for smoking weed, it has some of the best information that I have found so far, I have to admit I don’t always agree but I am always impressed lol. Keep up the good work and have a great Thursday!
I couldn’t understand some parts of this article Happy Father’s Day & When a loved one with bipolar doesn’t want help…., but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.
im still kinda new to this. been married 15 years. husband is bipolar with manic episodes ranging from talking bad to everyone and putting everyone down to throwing fits and yelling. he says he feels the rage but cant stop it. hes on the go all the time, a pilot, flying around the state and keeps saying hes taking care of business during the daytime. i cant get a straight answer out of him. he will not accept that he is bipolar and says its just the weight loss and diabetes. i never see him anymore. i think a bipolar person wouldnt necessarily fool around behind his wifes back, but now i dont know. im at my wits end.help
I read similar article also named ., and it was completely different. Personally, I agree with you more, because this article makes a little bit more sense for me