Bipolar Lesson To Learn From The VA Tech Massacre/Killings

Hi,

I have received a lot people writing me about the
Virginia Tech College Killer who killed 32 people–
Cho Seung-Hui.

If you are out of the US, you should know,
this is a big thing.
If you have no idea what I am talking about check
out cnn.com for more information about this.

People have asked, what I think he has. I don’t
know and I am NOT a doctor and don’t make diagnoses
but I would bet that he has something like
antisocial personality disorder.

“Crazy” is not a diagnosis. It will be interesting
to hear what he was diagnosed with but I am not sure
myself.

Anyway, there is a big bipolar disorder lesson to be learned
here.

I am going to tell you some harsh reality today.
It’s about the mental health system. The system
as I like to call it.

Here’s the real deal. This is the deal nobody is
going to tell you but me. The system does
a horrible job of keeping tracking of important
things.

What is the system? The system is everything that
goes along with mental health and your loved one.
It’s the doctors, therapists, hospitals, outpatient
programs, other programs, family members, etc.

Here’s the problem. If a person has a mental illness
over a long period of time, the system loses important
information. Files are lost. Doctors retire. Therapists
retire. The patient moves and new doctors and therapists
are needed. Along the way, 100% of the information is
NOT and I repeat NOT passed along.

So what happens is eventually some people have some
information but no one person has all the information.

You might be thinking, “What the heck is Dave talking
about…what information?” Information like how
the person is, suicide attempts, patterns of
manipulation, threats that were made against others,
ability to work, things that trigger episodes,
reasons for certain diagnoses, situations with
the police, actual violent acts committed, lies
told, the kind of
therapy that works for them, etc.

You might be wondering, “But doesn’t ever patient
have a file?” They are suppose to but what is
suppose to be and what really happens are many
times two different things.

Half the important information that my mom’s current
doctor needed was compiled by me David Oliver not
in her file. I have no idea why it was missing
from the file.

Also, remember there is the lazy factor. Many people
in the system are just too darn lazy to write stuff
up. They let it slide. You’re not going to believe
this but I have a friend, and I won’t tell you
which state, but he is a policeman. He use
to NOT pull over people because he didn’t want
to fill out any paperwork. It was easier to just
let people go so he could get home early.

This is very common. Many people don’t like paperwork,
and they don’t like to answer questions so if
they don’t write certain things or if they don’t
write anything at all, they, in their own minds,
get less hassle. Sad but true.

Let’s look at this example. I have a fairy
good friend who’s wife has bipolar disorder. I
have given him 80% of my materials and he hasn’t
gone through a thing. Why? Well because it’s free
so he devalued it but that’s another story
for another day.

I started telling him things he needs to look out
for with his wife. Everything I know about his
wife suggests she is totally out of control.

He screams, yells, takes her medication some time,
drinks, lies, manipulates, etc. etc. etc.

If you ask my friend if she is that bad, he says no.
At first I thought “well maybe she isn’t that bad.”

But then I got a call from another friend that gave me
the real deal. What his wife was really like. So I asked
him and he said “Well that stuff did happen but well
she isn’t that bad.”

Here’s the stuff that happen to him that he didn’t think
was so bad. She attacked him multiple times, she has cut
him where he has bleed, she drinks and then goes into
fits of rage, he has hit him over the head with a keyboard,
she has thrown a Sony Play Station at him, she has told
his kids terrible things, she has lied to relatives about
him, she doesn’t always take her medication, etc. etc.

I told my friend this was serious stuff. He said that
he knew but he thinks she will get better. I asked how?
If there is no plan, no strategy, how is she going to
get better.

THEN I ASKED THE MAGIC QUESTION

Does the system know all these things your wife did? He said
“well not really.” So the doctor knows NONE and I repeat
NONE of this. Why? Well he covers some of it up and his
wife is really manipulative. She puts on a great show
during doctor visits.

Well, at one point it got so bad that he asked me for some
help. He said he couldn’t talk to the doctor because of
the privacy laws, laws which I have at least 7 LEGAL
ways around. So I advised him out to get around the laws,
legally (PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY AND DON’T OFFER
LEGAL ADVICE).

Finally the doctor learned SOME of what was going on. Guess
what? The police don’t know he was cut by her more than once.
Guess what? He doesn’t know her history BEFORE he met
her. So right now, there are tons of gaps, of information
because……..

NOBODY IS CONNECTING ALL THE DOTS

Again, I know very little about the Virginia Tech Killer,
but I am pretty sure it will come out that this person knew
this, that person knew that, his family knew this, this doctor
knew that, this therapist knew this, this counselor knew this,
his roommates knew this, the police knew this, etc. etc. but
NOBODY connected all the dots.

Here’s the lesson for you and read this carefully if you are
a supporter. It’s YOUR job to connect the doctors for everyone
because NOBODY is going to do it but you. In my course,
I go into this at length on how to do this and how to connect
the dots fast so you can get it all done in the 15 to 20 minutes
doctors allot for treatment.

Check it out:

SUPPORTING AN ADULT
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11

SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com/

HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.survivebipolar.net/

Well I have to run, catch you tomorrow.

Your Friend,

Dave

P.S. Check out my F.ree blog with copies of emails
that I have sent in the past and lots of great
information for you:
http://www.bipolarcentral.com/supporterblog/

P.P.S Check out my F.ree podcast. Hear me give
mini seminars designed to teach you information
you can’t learn anywhere else.
http://bipolarcentral.libsyn.com/

  1. Lessons to learn and you can bet this will now be an historical topic!
    With mental illness, or medical illness, HISTORY, of the patient and family is key!
    Perhaps with the devastating event of this past week, the healing community will be forced to try to understand ANY mental illness for it’s powers and limitations!
    As a partner and in-law of people I dearly LOVE with bi-polar & anxiety disorders, and a mother of 2 children with a bi-polar dad, it is my responsibility to teach my children and at least “shine the light” on others that WE NEED TO SEE THAT WE ARE THE ULTIMATE HEALER OF OURSELVES. My girls know that there are warning signs even within ourselves that need to be heeded and take action , seek help and not be ashamed of what is in the end, being human!
    God Bless and make his face to shine upon the bereaved and grieving~!

  2. Thank you so much for saying this about the VaTech killing. I am hoping that there are changes made in the mental health system because of this tragedy. There are so many things that were done incorrectly in terms of managing this person, and people have a tendency to think that mental illness is not a real illness, until someone kills themselves or someone else. When it comes to insurance companies paying for illness, mental illness is always the first to get funding cuts. Mental illness is the first to get by-passed by the hospitals as something important to take care of in the community. I have been in the system as a person with BiPolar for 25 years and I have watched the steady decline in services available to the mentally ill, all because of money issues with the insurance companies. If you ask me, the insurance companies and the psychiatric community killed all of those people at VaTech. That may sound crazy, but that is just the way I feel about it. What kind of shrink just hands someone a bottle of pills and sends them on their way? There was no follow up and this person should have been in-patient for longer. As for privacy and rights, well, sure I love my privacy and rights, but there has to be a point where there is something more important than those two things, like safety. Back when I first had my first psychotic episode in 1981, there was no way I could have signed out of the hospital in 72 hours. Now, however, the laws support that behavior on the part of the person who has been incarcerated in the interest of his civil rights. Yeah, his rights. What about the rights of his friends, family and all those people who died who didn’t even know him?

  3. The “system” unfortunately fails EVERYONE! One of the biggest failures is the Insurance Co.’s having the “control” over the length of stay for in-pt psych. I have worked in the mental health field for 35yrs. I’ve seen many “changes”! The insurance companies have the power over whether a person even gets admitted AND how long they can stay!This usually amounts to ONLY 2 days!!! Not just for psych. but for every illness. This is sooo wrong!!! And “Deb”… you are so right about all too many of the Drs. In my many yrs. in the field, unfortunately, I can count on only ONE hand the number of good, caring, psych doctors!

  4. I hate to see us remember the killer and all of his disorders more than remembering the victims. I know everything happens for a reason, that is hard to swallow sometimes. Great lesson, I live in Virginia near Tech, I have a daughter who attends ECU in Carolina and we have many friends @ Tech. This has been a difficult time. I was first dx with Bi-polar last year after I was admitted to the hospital (where I had to stay for over a week, certainly not 72 hrs). For years I was told I suffered from depresson, oh no, I have been missed dx’d for many years. I feel like there are still good and bad days, many trials w/medications. Many days spent in bed, if it were not for my proactive husband I am not sure what I would do. He has been the one that new this was NOT depression but something else. My parents always brushed my lying, cheating, stealing, spending, yelling and everything else under the carpet, they have always gotten me out of my jams. I have 3 beautiful girls, 20, 15 & 10, I see their look of fear when an episode starts up and I am screaming and yelling. When is the right time to talk to them about this. Now after all they have seen and heard, or will that scare them more??? I know overall I am a good mother and have always been there for them, maybe too much, I give in to their every WANT as well as every need. God Bless each of you who see this and God Bless the families of the victims as well as the students.

  5. As someone with Bipolar II with anxiety disorder and a mother of a daughter age 16 with Bipolar II and behavior disorder (whom also has a 16 month old daughter)
    DAVE, FINALLY SOMEONE BESIDES ME GETS/SAYS IT! I have battled with my diagnosis shall I say for 7 years (with medication and therapy I must say am doing better as I have admitted my disorder and work to make it better) and a year ago my daughter was finally diagnosed (who says she will not admit she has the disorder) after I filed domestic assault charges when she became violent towards me. I knew at that point I needed to get her in the “system” meaning the State system since I had seen signs of behavior disorders and have had her in and out of therapy since she was 5 years old.
    Well, detention, 3 MORE psychiatrists and 4 foster homes later (and more tears than anyone can imagine from a mother who loves her daughter so deeply), we really are not any further along except she is not busting my lip, chipping my teeth or pulling the hair actually out of my head and knocking me out in front of my granddaughter by her.
    The reason you ask??
    NO ONE IS CONNECTING THE DOTS, NO ONE IS ON THE SAME PAGE AND I HAVE REPEATED EVERYTHING DETAIL SO MANY TIMES I DONT THINK THEY “THE SYSTEM” IS LISTENING ANYMORE.
    There is so much truth in Dave’s assessment of people not wanting extra work, paperwork, time to look at the big picture, or listen to what they think is NOT important to that day’s issue. Maybe if the media continues to reiterate this fact; doctors, caregivers, the system, etc. will have to connect dots and look at big pictures – or their dots will be connected and their big picture will be looked at if and when again events like VA Tech happen. (our thoughts and prayers with all the victims and their families)
    THESE PROFESSIONS ARE NOT JUST “JOBS”.
    They should not be entered into lightly. It could be a matter of life or death for the individual patient or others.

  6. David, thank you so much for another excellent analysis. Once my psych doc retired, all is difficult, but his records are excellent and will remain in his office for ten years. I am about to transfer them now, thanks for reminding me.

    Sara

  7. I was diagnosed Bipolar with Panic Disorder over 10 years ago. One thing that bothers me about the information I have read on this site, pertains to the “lumping” of everyone with Bipolar into the same group. I have never had violent outbreaks. I have never had problems with money, or overspending. I certainly do not need anyone to tell me if I can have the money I work for, or not. That was particularly offensive. I have been through state facilities, and private doctors. I am aware that there are those individuals with severe disorders, however a little clarification would be nice to see. As I read about your mother, I truly empathized with her condition. I suffer and struggle day after day and it does not get easier with time. I absolutely could not believe you were going to charge people to take this course of yours. I mean sending out information from your findings on a free basis, for individuals seeking that information is one thing, BUT to capitalize on the information you learned by trying to help your mom?? That just does not set well with me. Just remember you reap what you sow. If you feel so strongly about what you have found out…then write a book, but don’t make people feel desparate for information that may, or may not pertain to them. That is just not right.

  8. I think it is BS that they are claiming privacy laws preventd them from speaking to his parents when he went to the counselors/mental health evaluation center! Hippa laws should not be aimed at parents and spouses. I have had this problem when trying to speak with my spouse’s doctors and it is not right. These laws should only be aimed at media, insurance comanies and nosy people who are not related.

  9. I have bipolar disorder as do many people in my family. I can’t stress enough how important it is to have a system in place. If someone in your family is acting out, raging, punching a whole in the wall DO NOT CALL THE POLICE!!
    Because if your family member lunges at a patrolman they will shoot and kill him even though he/she doesn’t have a weapon. The police just assume that they do and shoot to kill.
    Many people with bipolar disorder are killed this way every year.
    If only the kid at VA Tech had a group system in place this would never have happened At the very least he could have been 302’d and held involuntarily in a hospital. If he wanted to get out early he would have to go before a judge who would have been made aware of his behavior and ideations and would turn down his release and he would have to finish his therapy and medication at the hospital. We have had to hospitalize children in our family so they could make some needed drug changes. And my best friend has had to 302 his adult daughter several times. Better safe than sorry. I’m sure you don’t want your loved one incarcerated or dead at the hands of the police.
    Or have others dead because he was not monitered closely.

  10. In terms of the VA Tech massacre there were MANY dots not connected. But this raises some really interesting questions. If the medical, law enforcement, counseling, housing staff, teachers, students and others knew about this loose cannon, why wasn’t something done? Obviously he had serious mental problems and nothing was done to protect the lives of the people around him. Now the other side of the story: those with mental illnesses seek help, therapy, pharmaceutical answers, support groups, etc. What about the privacy issues here? Our privacy regarding mental health issues and disorders is carefully protected–or at least it should be. So now the real question: where do we draw the line between medical privacy and public safety? Are the rights of the one held higher than the well being of the rest? Or is public safety of all held higher than the rights of the one? I DON’T HAVE THE ANSWER to this question. But it’s something that we all need to dialog a lot about. I’m sure that Dave will have some thoughts about this topic in the near future.

  11. Hi David,

    I am willing to “Connect the dots ” so to say.
    Thw world is a miserable place right now.This killing is just one example of where we have landed .

    The process of peace is so simple but we are all bent on making it so difficult and exclusive.

    Like there is an exclusive club of spiritually awakened individuals who enjoy bliss. They are definately trying- I’d never say that its not happening.
    But you need to go to the root cause to eliminate all this unnecessary suffering.

    So what are we really waiting for????
    Why hasn’t someone done it already?

    I want to do it…and am capable of doing it. Just definately need support. Cause i am Bi-polar and at times things go out of control for me.

    This last episode that I’ve had has been minor- and I’m happy to say that it is the bright side of things

    I’m confident that i will overcome it. I just need support from the environment

    We need to work quick and smart.

    Too much time has been wasted – too much positive energy wasted on completely useless endeavours.

    So let the FUN begin…we’ve all suffered long enough.

  12. When I hear of someone who has a mental illness killing someone or some people I think “Oh great now people are going to think everyone with a mental illness is violent and scary” This is simply NOT true. The majority of people who have a mental illness do not go on shooting sprees. It does happen but not very often. The reason it is splashed on every headline is because it is a rare tragedy. I do not know what the diagnosis of the gunman in Virginia is and will leave that to the experts. The major problem in America with mental health is the SYSTEM, the negative stigma and the insurance companies. I have Bi-polar and I know with my insurance it only allowed for a certain amount of inpatient hospital days and after that I was out of luck and out of the hospital… Even though I was still quite ill. This puts an enormous amount of strain on me, my family and society. I do everything I can to stay out of the hospital (take my medication, see my psychiatrist, etc.) but even now I am unable to find a therapist. With the negative stigma that surrounds those with a mental illness I feel like I can’t tell people I have Bi-polar because they might fear me. I have recently tried to overcome this but it is difficult. I have had this illness for twenty years now and never have been violent because of it. Sure I have been angry or frustrated but it was due to normal life situations…not because I have Bi-polar. I am a very loving and giving person. I mourn along with America for the victims following the horrific events that took place in Virginia.
    Sher

  13. Dave you hit the nail right on the head! First of all let me say that I can not lay total blame on the doctors, therapist or phys. I can tell you that if a bi-polar person is having a bad day or week well they will NOT go to their meeting. So when the doctors do get to see them it are during the lull of the mind storm. Everything is FINE doctor. Yes I am taking my medicines. (and they have for maybe a day or so) I think as a wife parent or child of someone with bipolar or any other number of mental illnesses we ourselves leave out the bad times because when they get to see the doctor it is as I said “all right” at the time. Keep a journal on your loved ones. Take it with you to the doctor and make them keep copies in their files. You want them to ask key follow up questions not the generic one of how are you feeling? Have you been doing alright on your meds? You want to the point questions. Have you had any outbursts? Arguements with the family or friends? If they have a tendacy to spend they need to ask HOW much have you spent since I saw you last and what did you spend it on? Then go into the more detailed questions. How were you feeling when you bought that? Was it a NEED purchase or a WANT purchase? Etc…
    Connecting the dots is easy to do when they are consistantly dealing with “the Mind Storm” but when there is lulls we all tend to sit back enjoy the rainbow and forget yesterday.

  14. I am not saying that the killer was bipolar or whatever illness society has labeled him with. This guy had a couple accounts of “stalking”, his peers and teachers found him wierd because he was a loner and really never said anything, one of his professors was concerned about some of his writings (which I read, and shouldn’t have been allowed to be turned in) they are graphic; a lot of cussing, anger, sexual comments, and killing. The professor did the right thing by turning these in, but nothing was ever done about it. Just in these few things, there are SO many red flags. I think he was a lost boy looking for attention and help…he got neither. I know I am going to get flack for saying this, but I blame part of this on the mental health care system – they had many opportune chances to step in and help, but they didn’t. I have seen this over and over, and honestly, it really pisses me off. This didn’t have to happen. When are you guys going to wake up?

  15. Deb, I agree with you when you say in part the medical health care system is to blame. Then again so are his parents, cousins, friends, teachers, neighbors or anyone else who became complacent with his behavior. I have heard talk of video games dulling a kid’s sense well let me ask you a huge question. If as a parent, teacher, etc..you allow a child to act out those types of scenes and don’t bring it up or attempt to stop it aren’t you the one that is them dulled? Aren’t you the one that sits back and says…? O it’s them damned games. Not only does that it take a village to raise kids now a day. If you see a kid being aggressive or destructive and their parents could care less buy goodness you go tell the child to stop it and if the parent gawks about it tell them either I dealt with it or the police dealt with it since you won’t and walk away. It is simple and to the point. It is past time that we stood up as parents together and let the kids know hey Mr. so and so on the corner will see you and tell you mama. Or Mrs. so and so told my mom we were on the roof yesterday. Get involved. Get to know your neighbors your teachers you kids friends parents. I believe if we all did this then in the future we would see less and less of the kind of violence that has taken place over the last 20 years.

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