Dave, I understand the need for boundries in supporting a bipolar, but if they do not heed these boundries what can you do. It seems every time my son and I get a good start on his treatment someone comes along and tears it all apart. My son keeps going back to drinking and bad relationships not leasoning to any of my advice. How do I draw the line and get it thru to him, I will not help him if he does not stay in the boundry lines drawn?

There are many definitions to the word “LOVE”. I am not going to give and define those. However, the Bible says the greatest commandment is to LOVE the Lord God with all of our heart, soul and mind AND to love our neighbor as ourselves. It also says, out of faith, hope and love, the greatest is love…..
I believe it is the “tough” love that allows us to set the boundaries and systems up for our loved ones, and to see them through them. Without love, all of the other things would be in vain, but with love, we can follow through with all that we put into place.
Loving someone with bipolar disorder is one of the most difficult tasks I have ever undertaken, and if it were not for the love I have for my friend, that can only come from God because of just how hard it is, I could not do what I do and I would have walked away a long time ago, despite the systems that were in place. Without love, how can we overlook and forgive some of the hateful things said and done to us; without love, how can we encourage and give hope to someone who has none; without love, how can we even exist in this world that is so full of sin and its consequences? It is because of God’s love for us that we can support others and His love in us that can help us do all that we need to do for our bipolar loved one.

I agree with you one hundred percent that love is important but not the most important.
I need to get this across to my son but haven’t had much luck. He is living with a gal who is bipolar. He doesn’t understand the full scope of the situation. I have observed the situation and can tell when she is manic by her spending habits. So far it hasn’t really cost him anything. She has written so many bad checks that she will never have a checking account. She goes to the dentist and doesn’t pay her bills. She can’t go to either of the hospitals in the area because she owes them money. She is now down to a nurse practioner because she didn’t pay her doctor bills. Because of this, she is paying double on her car insurance. If she ever leaves her employment, and they do a credit check, she will never get another job because she has no credit. Any time now, those who she wrote bad checks to and those whose bills she didn’t pay, will be coming after her. They will start to garnish her wages and then my son will finally realize that there is a problem here. I told my son to love her all he wants, live with her forever and do what ever he feels necessary for her but never marry her because they will never be able to purchase anything with credit as her credit becomes his credit.
She isn’t sleeping right. She claims that she doesn’t need much sleep at this time. Then there are times when you can’t get her out of bed. During those times she is depressed and lives in the past. She also puts on weight that she can’t seem to get off because all she will eat is junk food. Then when things level off, she eats right. When she is in the junk food mode, she will tell him that she ate at work and just wants to eat a few munchies when she gets home.
She has seven year old twin boys who are out of control most of the time. Because of this, they are in counseling. Up until recently, they would walk around telling everyone that they were going to “kill” them. That is pretty scary because there are kids being tried as adults for killing people. She has them part time because she is divorced. At Christmas one of them came up to me and said, “If you aren’t nice to me or hurt me, I will tell people that you touched me.” This terrified me when he said that because that is the last thing I would ever do. I even called my attorney and a couple of other ones as well and all advised me not to let those kids back into my house. So as of right now they are not allowed to come over with her when she visits. There are thousands of people in jail, and some of them looking at death row because of being falsely accused and I sure don’t want to be one of them.
This gal is great for my son when things are going well. She does love him and he loves her but as you said love isn’t the most important thing with people dealing with bipolar disorder. Knowledge, understanding, patience, and a plan of action is the most important. Knowing what to do when an episode occurs is the most important. I asked my son what he would do if she really went into an episode and he just looked at me. Until now, I wouldn’t know what to do either, because this is all new to me as well. However, me knowing what to do won’t help matters because I am not the one living with her. The knowledge that I have gained, I have shared with him and hopefully this will be of some assistance to him in time to come.
Thanks for listening and please share any help or information you can with me.
Thank you for your site as well.
Sincerely,
Sue

Guess what? When it comes to bipolar disorder, love does NOT conquer all. I speak from experience.
Sure it is helpful to love someone, but as you said Dave,if there are not boundaries and a system in place for the couple, all the love in the world will NOT prevent a bipolar episode from occuring, and the devastation that follows.
It is a hard, cold, sad but TRUE fact. You often think that if you love someone enough, that will be enough. But unfortunately, bipolar disorder is a chemical imbalance that transcends the boundaries of love.
Take that, Troy.

YES I DO THINK THEY NEED BOUNDRIES AND I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT HAVING A PLAN WHEN HE GETS AN EPISODE. I THINK THAT LOVE IS VERY IMPORTANT BUT SOMETIMES WHEN HE IS GETTING CLOSE TO AN EPISODE HE DOES NOT SEEM TO CARE AT THE TIME. I FEEL THAT HE CAN AT LEAST TELL ME THAT HE FEELS LIKE HE IS GOING TO GO THROUGH SOMETHING BUT HE JUST DOES NOT WANT TO LISTEN. I AM TRYING TO TELL HIM THAT THE ONLY WAY HE IS GOING TO GET BETTER IS IF HE WANTS TO. I AM TIRED AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE. SOMETIMES I THINK THAT I CAN’T LIVE LIKE THIS ANYMORE. SOMETIMES I THINK THAT I MADE A MISTAKE BRINGING HIM UP. SOMETIMES I THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN MISDIAGNOSED. HE COMES OUT OF JAIL IN ONE MONTH AND I HAVE NO PLAN FOR HIM LIKE I USE TO, NO PLACE FOR HIM TO GO AND HE GETS MAD OVER THE PHONE WHEN I TELL HIM THAT HE CAN’T DRINK BECAUSE AT HOME. ME AND MY HUSBAND GO ROUND AND ROUND WITH HIM ALL OF THE TIME.

I HAVE NO SOLUTION BUT TO LET HIM DO WHAT HE THINKS IS RIGHT BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN TELLING OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO STOP RUNNING HIS LIFE. FOR ONCE I HAVE TO STAND BACK AND LET HIM DECIDE. I WANT TO SEE WHAT HE CAN DO, I LOVE MY SON AND I HAVE TO HAVE FAITH THAT HE WILL DO OK AND THAT I HAVE TO BE HERE TO SUPPORT HIM IN WHAT HE WANTS, NOT WHAT I WANT FOR HIM.

I both agree and disagree with your comment about love being important but not the most important means to stability. I understand completely how important boundaries and systems are. However, when my husband had his first episode, where he was psychotic, thought he was Jesus, tried to burn our house down, called me horrible names, etc., it was my love for him that made me stay long enough to work with his physician, with him, with his family, and to assist him in obtaining stability, setting boundaries, having systems in place, and making plans so I was not caught unaware for his next episode.

Many friends told me I was crazy to stay with him. Personally, I don’t see the difference between his illness and cancer or diabetes. Those same friends would not leave someone with one of those illnesses, but due to behavior, they said they wouldn’t have “been so nice” and stuck around for the tough times.

That is why I believe love is most important FOR A STARTING POINT, even though that is not the final solution. Without love, a person may not be willing to go through the tough days, and at times exhaust themselves to put systems in place, set boundaries, and handle things that can be uncomfortable.

It really never dawned on me to leave my husband. Love kept me there and made me WANT to take the next step to support him in his illness.

But you’re right, love isn’t enough – it needs to go further. Love alone doesn’t do it. But without love, it’s unlikely the next necessary steps won’t take place.

Cindi

Thank you so much for this topic. We are new to this, because our 19 yr. old was just diagnosed with bi-polar and it’s very confusing. Added to the fact that he is addicted to alcohol and marijuana. He has backed off some of the using, but not completely and not willing to go to 12 step.

He has been going to the pschiatrist and taking meds. for two weeks. It’s been rocky, but we’re thankful he’s willing. He’s in a manic episode.

Hi Dave,
I believe Judith is on the right track. Without the love of God through the power of His son Jesus Christ, I don’t think my husband and I would have made it together and come as far as we have.
You might get some responses like this one from other Christians also: Please keep reading!

It depends on what your definition of love is. (Not what “is” is…LOL).
I get the following from a book I read recently by James C. Hunter called “The Servant” where he so eloquently describes love.
True love is not associated only with positive feelings. As he says, much of the New Testament was written in Greek and the Greeks used several different words to describe the multifaceted phenomenon of love. Eros- is where we get the English word erotic-sexual attraction, desire and craving. Storge’- is affection for family members. Neither of these words appear in New Testatment writings. Philos- another Greek word means brotherly or reciprocal love (kind of conditional love). Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love comes from this word. Greeks used the noun agape’ and the corresponding verb agapao’ to describe a more unconditional love rooted in the love of deliberate choice. When Jesus speaks of love in the New Testament the word agape’ is used, a love of behavior and choice, not a a love of feeling. Hunter goes on to say, “I cannot always control how I feel about other people but I certainly am in control of how I behave toward other people. Feelings can come and go depending upon what you ate for dinner last night. My neighbor may be difficult and I may not like him very much, but I can still behave lovingly. I can be patient with him, honest and respectful, even though he chooses to behave poorly.” He says the Bible gives a beautiful definition of agape’ love in 1 Cor 13. To paraphrase, love is: patience, kindness, humility, respectfulness, selflessness, forgiveness, honesty, and commitment. Hunter also talks about discipleship. As followers of Jesus, we are exhorted to be disiples to one another. Disciple is where we get the word discipline, which means to teach or train. The goal is to correct or change behavior, not to punish. This can be done in truth and love and by not letting our emotions lead us. When you want to honestly help some one you are committed to them. You sometimes must forgive. You must always be respectiful. You sometimes have to bite your tongue and be selfless. And of course it takes a lot of patience. The honesty part is that you always need to do what is right with your loved one, and that may be very hard, but it is true love. So “hat’s off” to Judith, I know being a supporter takes lots of love, and what the person with the disorder needs is a lot of LOVE!!

Bless you Dave, you have helped me more than you will ever know. All the tips and knowledge you share with us are out of self sacrificing love that you have, and all the tips you give us are loving actions that we can apply.
Diane

Yes i agree, i live in a shelter right now. and i feel the rules help me to stay more stable. when i stayed on my own my moods where less controled. love is nise but structere is a must. colleen boice

Wow. Ask and you shall receive, Dave. Diane, thanks for sharing your readings on the subject of love.

Potato/Patato…semantics! ‘Love’ can be passive (ie, feelings toward, forgiveness, understanding), and Dave’s love includes action, or a choice of behavior of the supporter (ie, setting up boundaries and a support system). I’m still learning what else.

Dave, i agree with you that we need love but must have boundaries. i likewise have explained to my husband that i am happy and contented with our life though we just get by with our meager finances but whenever he has this bout of bipolar he made me so miserable and very unhappy. that is the only cloud in our life. since then i know that at times was at the verge of bipolar but he tried his best to fight it and it has been a year now that we had happy life minus the bipolar. probably if i did not set that boundary he could just easily go with his episode. i notice signs but he will immediately fight it by trying his best to sleep early, to rest, eat properly and soon enough the start of the episode is gone and back to our usual normal life. just openness with each other sometimes do the tricks. of course the person with bipolar must have the will to overcome it, i think? thanks dave for the many information that i’ve learned from you. ellen

I agree with you Dave. But what about abuse? Is the supporter and children suppose to just put up with threats and violence? What is that showing the children?
People have a freewill and sometimes as a supporter you can only do so much. Am I wrong for saying that?

My recovery is the most important thing in my life. Without it, there would be no room for love and understanding.

To me, recovery means many of the things Dave said in his email… establishing and keeping boundaries, knowing your strengths and limitations, having the “system” in place.

I want to tell my loved ones that they are the number one most important thing in my life… but I know that my recovery has to come first. If I am not active in recovery, I have nothing to share because I promptly fall apart. And I certainly wouldn’t be able to accept and nurture the love they give if I went into an episode.

Sticking to my system is a form of self-love and love to others. It is the absolute best thing I can do in order to experience love in my life.

Melissa Colleen

Hey Graham, are you in here anywhere? Haven’t seen any posts from you in a long time, hope everythng is o.k. Or maybe you have and I am just not on here enough anymore. Sincerely Jeannie

HI “Tried Them All.”

Dear Dave: Thank u 4 the e mail about love. Because I know you read my comments. I have yet wonderful news to share with you Feb 24th at 1:02 am my son was born and at 1:27am my daughter was born yes there here and beautiful and healthy. He looks like my boyfriend and she looks like me, The sad thing is that he does not know because I have no idea where he is. I am complete and happy. I want you to know that i tried to love him yet his bi polor and not taking his meds took him over hes lost in this world and has times of anger and I know with the babies hes with me his son looks like him and I pray in time he gets the help he needs and gets to be in there life thank u dave

Patience and understanding are probably the 2 most important things when dealing with bipolar. But I believe that love must be the root of these. If I did not love my boyfriend so much I would not have as much patience and understanding for him. Of course you need boundaries, too. You don’t put up with abuse or violence in the name of love. I wish love could cure bipolar and other illnesses. Love gives hope and help and can ease stress to some extent. As Linda says, to love means to care. I helped my man through his manic episode with patience and love. He also needed health care and meds, though. Love alone does not get you through an episode. If you care about someone who is in a bipolar episode, refusing to take meds etc. the best love you can give them is by getting them into treatment. Likely they will thank you for it afterwards.

I might as well have been the son Sue was talking about in her story. I too WAS married to a smart good hearted woman. She was abused by her half brother, raped at 15 by another person as she was walking back home from cheer leading a football game. She started smoking and drinking and druging at 15. When she was about 29-30 she was introduced to crack cocaine by an idiot ex-boyfriend.

I met her when she was 32 and she was so exciting and loved animals,camping and all the same things I liked. She has a daughter the same age as my son and we thought that together we could do better for them.

I have had her in rehab 3 times,the BMU (behavior medical unit) 4 times, she has wrecked my truck twice, gotten several tickets, been arrested for drunk and disorderly, told all kinds of stuff to others about me that was not true. She would leave and be gone for 5 days at a time. I have went and gotten from crack houses. Have taken her to 3 psychiatrists, she went to counseling just a few times and would always quit because she said everything bad always was seemed to be layed on her. She has left me twice for one of her old boyfriends. She attempted suicide three times while we were married. She has worked only two jobs in the last 4 years and one lasted a month and her current job has been going on for about 5 weeks now I hope she does well. She told me the other day on the pone she is going to break up with this other guy,(who is also bipolar and drinks rum and smokes pot). I could go on but I won’t. The point is I LOVED HER UNCONDITIONALLY and she would not abide by the boundries. Love is important, BUT boundries and stability come first. because without structure all the love in the world will not make things better. What I thought was love was a lots of times was enabling. I still love her but I cannot go through that drama and stress again. I don’t know why many bipolar sufferers become addicts. It is such an insidious disease. Bipolar,PTSD,alcohol,and crack cocaine is a recipe for disaster. I pray that God almighty will heal her and release her from her hellish torment on earth. I also wish the same for every bipolar sufferer and supporter. Bipolar SUX. I JUST DON’T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO.

Hey, I separated my first name when I ordered my systems Dave. Therefore you call me Mary. I am MaryLou.
I have bipolar and my mom had it too. My parents knew I had something wrong with me even as a child, but they did not know it was bipolar until I was 31. My brother is schizophrenic and they knew something was wrong with him and sent him to a special school. Then they decided to have him come home from that special school that was far away from home. My parentd decided to move so he went into his first episode and landed in the hospital.
When I was born mom went into an bipolar episode and I ended up in a foster home. All because she ended up in the hospital staying for a while. And my sister had chicken pox so I was farmed out into a foster home and then lived with my mom’s sister. When I was a little over a year old mom wanted me to come home; she would not let my Aunt and Uncle adopt me. It was Christmas time when I went to live with my parents. I still feel more comfortable with my Aunt and Uncle than I ever did with mom and dad. Well all of them are dead now except my Aunt.
I have married 3 times, and this time it is for time and all eternity. So you would say my husband is my supporter. Well all the things I have been taught from all the therapists and Peer Support have helped me out so much that now I am trying to teach him some of the things I have learned over the years. Sometimes it is hard to teach him new ideas. I am his supporter and he is mine. I am the one who has bipolar and he has depression. Guess who is in charge of the finances?? It is me. I have the WRAP programs from our state people who are in charge of teaching us. Yes we need structure and we need the Wrap program, but as time goes on I react differently with my triggers and I have been without an episode for about 8 years. I have been busy helping other mentally ill patients to learn and live a normal life as is possible. My husband and I are active in our community and even though I am the bipolar one, since he has only been diagnosed for about a year, I have been trying to help him out We both help each other out. We love each other and for us it is important that we love each other and God and try to love others. It is because we love each other that we are both active in going to Doctors together and support each other and yes I have shown him the wrap program, but he does not realize how important it is for me that I have structure in my life. (A set routine in my life. I found out that whenever my structure gets altered I get stressed out , so much so I go into the fight or flight mode. Unfortunately it is everytime things start to get out of my structured plan for ths day. Well my newest Docor figured out that I do go into a crisis mode when things get outside my structure and he has me on adrenal support; and Now I am learning that when something comes up unusual I am not catastrasizing the situation. Right now I can handle one or two things going wrong a day without going into the crisis mode.
So what am I getting to is that a husband and wife need to love each other to stay together and to be willing to help each other out. Plus we do need knowledge and we do need structure. Without one of these 3 things we would be in trouble. Thanks for listening and sharing your ideas and systems with us. MaryLou PS:I did not know that structure was important or about the crisis mode I go into until you mentioned it in one of your systems. Alot of your information is what I have been taught over 45 year period. I have been taught thru therapists and in the Peer Specialist classes and now in Peer Support. Basically we are setting goals and trying to reach them.

I need to set and follow thru with consequences for my loved one. Our schedules are totally opposite and he comes up with more excuses to avoid talking to me about what is going on with him. He is up all night, makes it to school and work – sleeps all day and is up just about all night. I want him to develop a healthy routine. This can’t be good for his bipolar…..any advise???? At what point do I say enough is enough and ask him to leave? He really does not believe I will follow thru on any consequences. Should you make a loved one leave their home? As you probably assume, there is much left out in the above….. Thanks

I THINK THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING TOPIC ESPECIALLY FOR ME THIS MORNING SINCE MY BI-POLAR ROOMMATE HAS HAD EPISODES ALL WEEK INCLUDING LAST NITE AND THIS MORNING. SHE DRIVES ME CRAZY, I TRY TO CALM HER DOWN, WHEN SHE DOES SHE SPEAKS RATIONALLY, AND THEN 10 OR 20 MIN. LATER WILL FIND A PROBLEM WITH MY WORDS AND SCREAM AND RAGE AGAIN. I DID SOME NETWORKING FOR HER AND TODAY SHE MADE AN APPOINTMENT WITH A THERAPIST — WE WERE GOING TO SEE HER TOGETHER TOMMORROW, BUT SHE FELT SHE NEEDED TO SEE HER ALONE AND MADE THE APPOINTMENT. SHE ALSO LEARNED A LOT FROM A HOROSCOPE CHART I HELPED HER DO ONLINE, AND THE FACT THAT SHE FOUND HER SIGN, SCORPIO, IS A DARK PLACED SIGN, AND HER NEGATIVITY ALONG WITH HER BI-POLAR MAKES HER A TIME BOMB. I DON’T KNOW HOW I’VE SURVIVED LIVING WITH HER FOR 8 YEARS…
IT ALL GOT WORSE WHEN HER EX-HUSBAND PASSED AWAY. HE WAS HER SOUNDING BOARD AND BEST FRIEND EVEN AFTER THEY DIVORCED AND SHE “CAME OUT” AS A LESBIAN.
I KNOW WE ARE HEADED DOWN THE RIGHT PATH BECAUSE WE SEPARATED OUR RELATIONSHIP AND SHE IS GOING TO WORK ON HERSELF NOW. SO I WON’T BE THE RECEPIENT OF HER ANGER!!!(HOPEFULLY)
BUT TO GET TO THE QUESTION: “Is Love the Most Important Thing?” — Yes and No. I feel everyone must know they are loved. But, they are also to be held responsible for their behavior when they make themselves be unloving. So many times I’ve said to my bi-polar, “I can’t take this anymore, I feel like I want to die”. So, the bi-polar has to realize they cause their supporters a lot of pain at times and it is difficult to love them.

I find BP people LOVE a lot more.
Anger I get from the meds.
ALL BP I know, have been locked up with…
Tell me they also know psych. & meds make them WORSE!
So we LIE & get out.
“I was quite unwell… I now feel a lot better…Thank You.”
This is recorded on Cassette, and Written down by Many School Girls.
WOW ANOTHER “success.”
Psych. love it.
If you do not know what it wants you to say, it will tell you.
This is ALL that keeps them in a job.
See You Tube: “The Thud Experiment.”
Bye for a bit, I will now feed the Pigs.

I agree with your email comments on love needing boundaries, systems and borders in place. I feel if you are supporting someone who is bipolar, you already love them – that is a given. In reading through some of the responses to your email from Feb. 24 – I read one thing someone wrote about how his wife is calling him abusive – when she is abusive. My soon to be – ex – husband does that all the time. He claims that he has been abused when he has dragged me and our two daughters through the mud to hell and back (He won’t take medicine and suffers from extreme paranoia and mood swings – loves me and them for a few days and then hates us for the rest of the week – then back again.). One of our daughters has also been diagnosed as bipolar at the age of 14, and has been struggling to find stability (with medicine) even until now – at 18 years old. Even with her medicines – when she does not feel well, – she claims that no one loves her. I have never been fooled by those comments. I know I love her – and to love her is to set boundaries and expectations. If I don’t, then I would be contributing to her instability and impede progress she would make toward stability and any sort of independence and being able to take care of herself. During her 18th year, she had an extreme episode – her medicine was not helping her at that point and needed a makeover – I called the police and an ambulance – and for the first time – SENT HER TO THE HOSPITAL ALONE – I did it out of LOVE – because she needs to grow up and speak for herself at the hospital when they ask “so why are you here?” Instead of being there at the hospital, I told her that they could call me if needed for any questions. Earlier in time – she would try to spar with me in the waiting room of the ER. It turned into a wake up call for her – and she actually voluntarily had herself admitted for a change to her medicines. As an adult, she would now be admitted to the adult portion of the hospital where you actually have more privacy then the adolescents and she was glad she did. I mentioned this because LOVE can make you moved to make choices that hurt – it hurt very much to send her in an ambulance all alone, but she needed to go alone to understand the borders, boundaries and expectations of her. She needed to see that her emotional problems aren’t just the responsibility of others, nor to be blamed on others. That she has to take some responsibility in her own care. It hurts to do this because I want to protect her, since she is still a child, but LOVE dictates that helping teach her responsibility is LOVING her. I hope I didn’t ramble on too much.