Dear Dave,
How are you? It’s been awhile since I’ve written, but I always keep up with your site.
I am believing that your theory is correct as my fiance’ has come back and forth approximately six times now and ends up for the worst and then has to come back home. He tries to make it on his own, which I think is great, but now knows that he needs help with the stability part and is more accepting of the fact that something is wrong. I used to have an angry attitude toward this until I began to understand that this is part of the cycling.
The more that I show him a good life when he comes home, the more he wants to stay home; the more that I show him that I am moving forward with or without him in my own endeavors for school and business, etc… the more he sees what’s being accomplished and he now wants to be successful.
I don’t doubt that there will be more rough times but now at least that I have learned to continue on and be good to myself in front of him, instead of letting him affect me so much, he is catching on and wants to do well too. It’s a win-win.
Sincerely,
Caprice

Dear Dave,
I have Bipolar Disorder.
I take 3 medications for it.
Still I get depress not stable always sad and anexity all times.I dont take antidpression anymore last 11 months.
I will see Dr Dec 19 and tell him.I hope he can find something make me feel good. It really hard I get madness too.
Thank you for your emails it helps.
Sincerely,
Clinton Bradshaw

Dear Dave,
I agree. I think that a person must accept his/her illness as in awareness, and want to make a difference. I think that the stigma that surrounds this disorder is the negativity that this

(continued) disorder brings when it is untreated and misdiagnosed; even undiagnosed. Thanks for all of your hard work in enlightening us. My “loved one” is still untreated. He has convinced himself and his supporters that I have the problem. I am just trying to keep an bipolar friendly environment and care for myself like never before and my lovely daughter. I’m excited about your venture in Espaniol! Bravo to you. Say hi to your lovely mom!

Peace!

Dave, you write with such energy and enthusiasm, I suspect there may be a little bit of the hypo about you! Well, you’re Mum is BD and it IS an inherited condition …

IT IS HARD TO DISAGREE WITH YOU DAVID BUT I MUST. IF IT WERE THAT SIMPLE AS LET’S SAY I AM GOING TO HAVE A BURNING DESIRE TO GO TO THE FOOD MARKET AND BUY A GALLON OF MILK AND BRING IT HOME. WE AS YOU KNOW HAVE CHEMICAL IMBALANCES THAT SOMETIMES FIRE IN THE BRAIN AND OCCASIONALLY DO NOT. THE WILLFUL INTENT FOR A BIPOLAR IS VERY UNPRODUCTIVE TO SAY THE LEAST. WE ARE A VILLAGE. HOW CAN I SAY THAT? MOST OF BIPOLARS LIVE WITH SOMEONE THIS LEADS TO CARE FROM ONE OR MORE THAN ONE IN THE FAMILY SETTING. YES! I AGREE THAT A FEW BIPOLARS CAN STAND ON THEIR OWN TWO FEET. THIS BEING SAID BIPOLARS CAN NOT JUST PRETEND EVERY THING IS FINE WHEN IT IS NOT. I AM SURE YOU KNOW PEOPLE THAT ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS SNAP THEIR FINGERS AND THEY ARE ABLAZE WITH A DESIRE TO BE NORMAL . I CONTEND THAT THESE SECRETIVE AND BACK BURNERS ARE NOT SIGNIFICANTTLY BIPOLAR. I HAVE HAD 4 FULL BLOWN EPISODES EVERY YEAR. I CAN NOT EQUATE MY BIPOLAR DISORDER WITH SOMEONE THAT CAN BE SECRETLY NORMAL. MAYBE SHE IS SECRETLY BIPOLAR. JAMES

HI Dave,
Here’s my take on your most recent email. I believe i have been bi-polar for most of my life. Undiagnosed officially until 5 years ago when i was 43. I was on several different drugs and finally settled on Prozac which seemed to work until 2 years ago. Of course i was in denial that it had stopped working and SURE that i could handle whatever came my way. As of this moment i have started lithium 5 days ago. I dont believe it will work and that i will always be plagued with with my depression/mania etc. My case is different. Im also a recovering alcoholic/addict who has been clean and sober since 05/14/82. I have not attended meetings regularly for more than 5 years as i believe that since i am on meds maybe drinking and drugging wasnt really my problem AND also that i am a hypocrite for openly speaking at meetings about AA can fix anything without meds…..which obviously is not the case. Some of us do need meds. Anyway-ill get to the point….I am one of those people that i consider not fixable-short term fixable but it will always come back…..i know that with every fiber of my being. I believe that its only a matter of time when the drugs stop working if they ever really take effect to begin with (its only been 5 days this time). I never know/acknowledge that im in an episode unless i leave my husband and get on a plane to meet someone new. Of course by the time that happens i am so mad at my husband i just hate him…..we’ve been married 23 years-kids are grown etc. I have a hard time BELIEVING that another episode will NEVER HAPPEN again–regardless of treatment and meds. Im not saying my case is different ive just been fighting this for such a long time i cant let my guard down again and believe that i will never have another episode. I think i know myself that well. I just dont believe THE MEDS/TREATMENT WILL continue to work. I just want to be normal and not have this disorder—-live a normal life without the bipolar thing RULING every aspect of my life. Thanks for listening…..and maybe u can tell me why believing will work forever.

MS Kerry Crawford
PS two of my 3 adult children have the same bipolar disorder untreated.

To Tere:
How wonderful for you. Thanks for sharing that.

Peace,
LaLa

yes I agree. I have always been determined that I can beat the monster with in. That probably is not the term I could use but there it is.
to me knowing the nature of the best and it attributes makes it easier each time to get over it faster and perhaps prevent which I am happy to say I have for the most part do.
so watching my sress level and listening to others when they notice something about me that seems off, I sit back and relfect how am I feeling have I been racing around or dragging my feet…. and I try really hard to adjust myself. Not always easy but so far doable and all because I don;t want or need the stigma of people ‘s judgements because I have BP2.

Yes, I totally agree that it has to be the determination and desire of the person to continue being stable…..but also support from others.
SO many times, I hear that people with BP disorder think of themsleves that they are not worth much, and have no abilities, and for some tired and affected suporters–they loose it and confirm these thoughts!
The effort has to come from a supporter as well, to remind their loved ones, that YES-they CAN DO IT, become more stable and totally sucessful!

I think Dave made it quite clear that he wasn’t suggesting this “positive” thinking could be started or maintained while one is in an episode. He’s not so daft! However, it is a high risk approach to believe we can avoid episodes simply by thinking positively. If you believe that, how will you think about yourself when you fail to achieve what you have been told, what you believed, is possible? “I’ve failed where I think others have succeeded; therefore, I AM A FAILURE.” My advice is “DON’T EVEN GO THERE!” Never make promises to yourself that you cannot guarantee you’ll achieve. Failure to meet self-imposed targets are bad enough for people who don’t have BD, but they can set off bad episodes, and even kill us, if we play around with them, with thinking we can always achieve some measure of normality just by positive thinking. Sure, cognitive thinking, cognitive challenges against negative assumptions can be good, but never ever fool yourself into thinking “if I do such and such I can avoid having an episode.” You’ll just make yourself a whole lot worse.
To give you an example … some of you will remember the TQM programs that went through so many big and small companies in the US and UK. “Get it right first time!” was the mantra. It was, they told us, quite possible to “get it right first time” if one followed the procedures correctly. That meant if we didn’t get it right first time we had failed to follow procedures correctly, or we had written the procedures incorrectly, or we had f ailed in some other respect, such as in handling people correctly, Whatever, we PERSONALLY had failed. Dr Mike Scott, a clinical psychologist at Manchester University told me he had never been so busy after TQM started, mostly with employees where TQM had been introduced. TQM put amazing stress on employees because it set them up to fail, because the expectations of a TQM system was a level of perfection that employees could not reach. But the brainwashing by the trainers, and some of their enthusiastic converts, rammed into people that perfection WAS possible for every employee. So, they failed. And those who invested themselves most of all in TQM were probably the most affected by these failures …

Hi Dave! Just want to tell you that we watched a very interesting TV program on the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) re: Bipolar Disorder on Tuesday night on the LENS (from 10.00PM until 11.oo PM pacific time) If you could contact CBC and get it, lots of people would learn a lot from it!I learned a lot! Best Regards Michelle {michelle_dumelie@hotmail.com}

Hey, Dave! How’s it going? Glad you have some really GREAT ideas of how to go ahead with implementing some things that WILL be helpful to us ALL…

I’ve found that when I’m “normal,” (stable), my thoughts and moods coincide with those of my friends and acquaintances. It’s HARD to be/have a friend when I’m in a manic episode. Sure, it’s fun/great to be hypomanic or “hyper,” by NOT taking meds or following a routine, but I’d much RATHER be stable than “hospital-able.” When I’m in a manic episode, I leave a swathe of destruction and chaos behind, and am finally hospitalized, which is NO fun, I can tell you 🙁

I’ve been stable (out of the hospital) for 30 years now. During that time, I owned/managed a 3-apartment house. This required interviewing prospective tenants, responding to their complaints, hitting them up for the rent (I’ve had to kick some people out when they refused to pay rent for 2 months), and fixing/repairing anything that needed it. It WAS a FULL-TIME job, and one I’m pretty proud of.

Unfortunately, it was turning into a “crack house,” with addicts living upstairs AND downstairs. I was friends with these people, and though I didn’t use crack, I knew they did. Also, I stayed in the house for two years after my husband died. It was built in 1926so there were plenty of repairs and break-downs that were about to be needed. With all the memories of my husband still present, and the deterioration of the house, I decided to move in 2005.

Being a “cliff-dweller,” (my boyfriend’s term for condo owner), I HAVE to interact daily with all sorts of upper-scale people. I couldn’t do that and be un-stable. With the help of meds and therapy, I literally “drove” myself to improve and become “normal.”

Yes – I AM aware that this disease CAN/WILL sneak up on me when I least expect it. But – I am PROACTIVE in my treatment and my DESIRE to be stable. I can live without the extreme “highs” of mania; but I CAN’T afford to be “sick.” I’m established in my own house; I have two cats that keep me grounded; and I have a boyfriend who loves me. Why on earth would I want to risk all that on being “un-stable?” Now – I know there are some bipolars who cannot/will not contribute to their success with the illness. Some are sicker than others. I consider myself lucky, in that I have the services of the Community Mental Health Center that support me in my desire to remain stable.

It’s hard, don’t get me wrong. I slip up sometimes, and don’t get enough sleep. But I take my meds religiously, and try to limit my stressors. Sometimes, I don’t even want to get out of bed in the mornings, but know I have to go on the computer for my work. I have to feed and water the kitties! I KNOW I have a “mood disorder” that I struggle to keep under control. But that makes me want to WORK AT IT, and be the best person I know how to be, with God’s help…

BIG HUGS to all bipolar survivors and those who love them. My prayers are with you as you try EVERY DAY to improve. God bless you all.

I really can connect to your story with your husband it is almost identical to mine. My husband has been diagnosed for years now but he refuses to be stable and take the medication occassionally he will admit to the behavior he is doing is wrong and something is wrong, he scream and cusses me out, has these grand ideas that he is mr Wonderful and I am always wrong. That too is because he like your husband wants to be left alone and sit on the bed playing video games and not being bothered or have anything asked of him. My husband is too also I feel lazy and sabotashes himself in what ever he does and then blames the other people for it. They wanted him to dress up or whatever it is such stupid little things. He has said he doesnt like his job supposedly looks on the internet everyday for hours. Goes on interviews but where is he still after a year at the same job. My husband seems calm and quiet as long as you dont ask anything from him. He has done very bad and bizzare things to me in his mania and moodswings. He cannot deal with conflict that is what sets him off and he will threaten, bite me, smack me and pin me against the wall by my neck. But I am the one to blame. If I even mention now please take your medication he takes that as an insult and goes all out will the insults on my family,myself and I have suffered recent deaths of all my grandparents he will scream and yell things referring to my grandparents being dead. I am also separated from him and my neighbors called the police when he was going off and screaming and yelling at me and broke my cell phone for me calling his parents to try and get them to calm him down. I got a temp restrainging order on him for that and because he has said before that he could kill me jail wouldnt be so bad. I dropped it because I felt bad and love him and his family always tells me to try and make it work but My husband is so mad at me for the restraining order and doesnt even accept that the incident’s I wrote which are many over the past year even happened or he will say I blew it out of proportion or what ever the crazy thing is Half the times when he did those things he would apologize say he would go back on his medication and he now says he doesnt even remember. And screams even though he did those thing and acted that way why would I ask him to move out or get a retaining order on him he is the VICTIM. I feel your pain leesa my 5 yr old told her counselor that she is affraid he daddy is going to kill her mom and she wants to protect me but she is too small and scared of him when he yells and throws mommy into the laundry doors. I wish my husband would actually want help but he doesnt want people to judge him. The sad part is my husband can go 2/3 weeks being stable then boom Something snaps or he is so nice and loving when he is high on drugs(seeing him be that way is so sad for me) and he drinks behind my back to deal with his life it is so sad. He had said he would stop all that when we got married unfortuently that was a big lie. He goes to the VA hospital and gets these pyschiatric evaluations they perscribe him medication but he wont take it. He has decided after the 10 yrs of this he is fine and nothing is wrong with him.

I’ve been following this thread since yesterday and I’m a little confused by graham n’s final words (and some of the preceding comments) Just keep telling Bipolar people they can cure themselves and you’ll kill all of them off!

Did someone say bipolar people can cure themselves? I thought it was more that one of the KEY INGREDIENTS in retaining stability was having a BURNING DESIRE to be stable. Maybe I missed something. ANYWAY, I don’t think anyone wants to “kill all of them off”, any more than folks like destiny and I want to be KILLED OFF by a bipolar significant other.

Destiny, my heart goes out to you. I’m glad that you are separated from your husband and I’m wondering how you handle visitation with your little girl. Me? I don’t rock the boat. Like your husband, my spouse has indicated that jail isn’t so bad … a roof over his head, plenty of time to read, that’s all he needs. I will say, however, that he APPEARS to be working hard on achieving stability. I can’t take the chance that he might fall off the stability wagon though. It could be fatal for me, and my daughter. I support him from a distance, but I need to create a life that is positive for myself and my darling child. He seems to be ok with the situation, although he occasionally mentions that he misses us. I have anger that I cannot express to him. Yes, conflict is dangerous in my case. I won’t live in an environment where I cannot freely express myself. Also, like your situation, my husband has substance/alcohol abuse issues. He’s big on self-medicating. Trying to tell him to get help, for years and years, only made me “the b*tch”.

I guess what I don’t “get” is how people can KNOW THE RULES, and the LAWS, and not think they apply to them. My question, then, is don’t bipolar individuals think those rules and laws apply to them? How do they rationalize that? Is it just risk-taking behavior? Or do they really think they are exempt from the constraints the rest of society lives under?

Even now, my husband thinks about “hurting Leesa”. I received a call from his therapist (with his permission) because he had thoughts of this and since he’d tried to kill me in the past, the doctors felt I should know that there are still thoughts there. For some reason, I’m his “target” and the one responsible for all of his issues in life. I assure you, I am not. I’ve been a faithful, loving and motivated wife.

Hi Leesa
It was my impression that Peech was saying Bipolar people can “cure” themselves, can stop their episodes if they realy wan to do so. If I have misunderstood this, please forgive me – my judgement isn’t at its best at the moment! My intention was to refute any suggestion that people with Bipolar should be encouraged to think they can control what they can’t, that it is very damaging to try to convince ANYONE they can do something that is impossible for them to do because the inevitable failure will be damaging to their self-image. That’s band enough for “normal” people but could be enough to drive someone who is Bipolar right over The Edge. The depressions are bad enough without also harbouring any feeling of self-worth. After all, if you feel you have no worth, it’s easy to justify to yourself that doing whatever you must do to end Life is as good idea. However, if you understand that your failures can be explained, at least in part, by having Bipolar, then some measure of self worth can be retained. That positive image of oneself could be enough to pull a Bipolar person back from The Edge! So, I am saying don’t do anything, don’t try to believe in anything that promises anything like a “cure”. And for supporters of Bipolar, don;t dare ever suggesting to a Bipolar person that they could, if they wanted to, control their episodes because they can’t! Tell them they could and they’ll feel all the worse for not being able to do so!

To Destiny:
That is the EXACT same way my “loved one” or spouse behaved in the beginning. He had me believing that it was me. I have been in therapy and trying to figure out what’s wrong with ME since 01. I now know it is NOT me. Sure, I am imperfect and I own that. I am willing to lay those on the table in the open and work on them. However….I don’t rain bolder sized garbage on my family, commit emotional treason, speak disparagingly about my spouse to is loved ones in an effort to alienate and punish him for not conforming to my twisted reality, OK?? It really doesn’t matter what type of psychosis or illneses one suffers from. One has to want to do better and humility; which most people don’t use in their vocabulary;(it as a stigma) which means being teachable, if you will,the willingness to do better, and one has to do what it takes to be a reputable human being. I do agree that the chemical imbalance is a force to be reckoned with;it makes it hard to make sound decisions, and the irrationality of BP should not be ignored; however, not all BP’s lie, scheme and do the hateful things that your spouse, as has mine, has done to you. We all have a core, whether we are mentally ill or not; and some of us gravitate to sociopathic behavior because that’s what we want to be. Believe in yourself; which by the way, was what my problem was along with codependency; and KNOW that you have your garden variety of imperfections, but you are not wrong in your assessment of your situation. You don’t have to explain yourself, defend yourself and all the like that your spouses illness would have you do. YOUR sanity is only in question when you minimize the seriousness of your spouse’s behavior and blame yourself. I wish you the best. Your safety and that of your daughter is of utmost importance.

Peace

Well said, Kerry. You did it with less more restraint than me because …. you may guess I’m hypo at the moment!

I think you are right about a person’s thinking and stability. The Bible says, ‘as a man thinketh, so is he’. Hope you can continue to develop…there is so much unknown about the mind. Sueb

Hey there, Graham … I said: “I guess what I don’t “get” is how people can KNOW THE RULES, and the LAWS, and not think they apply to them. My question, then, is don’t bipolar individuals think those rules and laws apply to them? How do they rationalize that? Is it just risk-taking behavior? Or do they really think they are exempt from the constraints the rest of society lives under?”

I was asking some legitimate questions, not making sweeping generalizations. I was trying to understand how someone (anyone–bipolar or otherwise) can know exactly what the rules/laws are, and choose to break them.

Then, you said … Graham N said…
Leesa
Of course Bipolar people know what is legal and what is not! If all you do is make sweeping judgement and by doing so, demonstrate little understanding of the Bipola condition, it is little wonder your husband may get irritated by you!

With all due respect, I think your response might be a little harsh. You have no way of knowing whether or not all I do is make sweeping judgements. As I’ve already mentioned, I don’t understand, hence the questions I asked. From the point of view of a bipolar supporter, I had to chuckle at princesslala’s comment “I don’t rain boulder-sized garbage on my family”. I’ve been there, and it doesn’t feel good when you are trying to move forward in life and take care of a family, and not understand WHY your spouse continually “rains boulder-sized garbage” on you and your family. Yes, I admit I am not spending as much time as I would like to on learning all of the in’s and out’s of bipolar disorder. I’ve been a little too busy rebuilding my life after the third time my husband’s behaviors have CONTRIBUTED to, if not CAUSED our loss of everything, including our home. I’m the sole income provider for myself and our child, a role I was thrust into after my husband BRUTALLY ATTACKED ME … and nearly killed me. I’m not whining about that. I’m still married to the man because I do care about him as a human being, and I did, after all, marry him for better/worse/richer/poorer/sickness/health … and I’ve given him space, support (which I do not mention or brag about because I’d do it for anyone, not just my husband because that’s the way I am) both financial and emotional. I have made certain he has a roof over his head, which he is basically now paying for himself through his employment. And also, yes, there could be co-occurring conditions. If that is the case, then he has not shared it with me. So, assuming there either is, or isn’t co-occurring conditions or disorders, I’m wondering how you can say “it is little wonder your husband may get irritated by you!” I think that grabbing someone by their throat and thrusting them backwards so hard that they upend an antique jelly cabinet and then strangle them while crushing them over the monstrous piece of furniture, muttering “you’re going to die now” over and over and over for 20 or so minutes, creating other deep bruises on arms and legs as a result of that person struggling for their life, leaving finger-sized bruises and lacerations on the throat resulting in the loss of voice for three days is a little more than an “irritation”. Quite honestly, I didn’t think I was going to die by strangulation at his hands, I felt like he was going to break my neck, and that he was somehow holding himself back from doing so. I did pray, I remember becoming relaxed and praying “I believe in God the Father, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord … and so on.” Again, I repeat, I think this behavior is just a LITTLE MORE than “irritation”. Can you agree with that? I know my husband has difficulty with empathy. He admits that he cannot identify with someone else’s pain. I do appreciate your “take” on this. It has been most enlightening. Since I am clearly lacking in my knowledge of bipolar disorder, and OBVIOUSLY deserved what the man did to me (ahem), I just won’t ask any more ridiculous questions here. Oh, btw. We all have times when we are on the edge … it isn’t just those with bipolar.

To LEESA: I whole-heartedly agree that YOU don’t irritate your husband; it is his illness. As a matter of fact, I had my better-half (before he was my husband), attempt to choke me in the bed FOR NO APPARENT REASON other than I asked him if he had a nice nap! Then, he went in the kitchen, and was pointing a knife at his own stomach! Well, I tried to wrestle the knife away, and he CHASED ME in his wheelchair (yes, those things can be FAST) into the living room, brandishing the knife – and I hid behind an overstuffed chair, saying out loud The Lord’s Prayer – and he backed off…fortunately, in order to leave the situation, all I had to do was go to my friend who lived in the downstairs apartment, and beg her to let me in! There was absolutely NO provocation! He was sentenced to a year away from me – in psychiatric facilities, until I took him back; not fully recovered, but recovered enough that he could live with me in harmony. I guess it taught us BOTH a lesson P-)

NEVER assume that ANY person with ANY mental illness will remain STABLE; there are too many horror stories of those who don’t take their meds and become abusive. If you, or anyone else, finds themselves in even a verbal-abusive environment, think very seriously of an escape route. I was lucky I had my tenant downstairs who was a FRIEND, take me in…

Just wanted to add my two-cents-worth that I have been THERE. AND – no one will understand or be empathetic until they have walked IN THE MOCASSINS.

You are in my thoughts and prayers. If you still feel you have to stay with him to the bitter END – that’s your choice. As I said – I married the love of my life, because – when he was good, he was very, VERY good, but when he was BAD, he was HORRID.

Hey Dave
My name is Michael J Marx like you my mom has bipoloar witch I have been dealing with for 25 years. I read that you need some people from the south and Dave I would like to help you out. Dave I have Lupus also known as SLE you can GOOGLE it, it will tell you mre but with that I have muptable organ involement with failure with my hart lungs and kidenys. Dave any help I can give please let me know. You can email me at marxthetrainer@yahoo.com
Thanks Dave and have a wonderfull day