Dave,
Thank you SO much for addressing the potential dangers AND the importance of treatment. IT IS EVERYTHING!!! My boyfriend has been manic for a very long time and aside from what he’s done already…I am SO afraid of what might happen. He won’t get help! Now, he has successfully alienated ME from everyone who knows him. Noone believes me and noone will help me. What do I do??

Hi Dave: It is true about no meds and violence with serious mental disorders, especially BPD which is so often is misdiagnosed, because as you said in one of your earlier emails: a doctor is only as good as the patient will allow”. My daughter, who has BPD, has a theory about Mass Shootings, such as just happened, she thinks that because people, in general, are very cruel to those who are different and if that involves some kind of mood disorder that the person will resort to violence of some kind. She believes that the person will commit suicide or take it out on the ones who have treated the person badly. I had to teach her that when she felt violence towards others while in school to keep it in until she got home and yell and scream at me. I had no idea what BPD was or any idea she had a mental disorder at all. But I had to work and couldn’t spend all my time at school because she did something to this kid or something else to that kid. So I was a BPD supporter before I had ever heard of the words. She progressive got worse and I got counseling for her when she was about 10 y/o which led to a Psychiatrist and sometimes medicated and sometimes not. It has been an uphill ride and still is. She still yells and screams at me when she feels an episode coming on and during an episode. My husband doesn’t like it, BPD for him too, but I told him to get used to it because this is how I taught her to cope. The biggest concern I have now is I am in the final stage of emphysema and will pass on in a few years and I worry about what will become of her then. Her father is worthless to her and her step-father has all ready informed me that he will not be able to be around her and help her because it would hurt him too much because of the memories she will cause him to have. Therein lies my major concern.

sorry for the double post
Lorie

Dave,
I am a person that was dxd with bipolar in 1994 and was put on every medication the pdocs thought would work for me. I did not have anything work for longer than 6 months. After years of being treated by countless hospital pdocs and several of my own I am no longer taking any meds for bipolar. I take an anti-anxiety med for sleep at night and that is all. I feel like my pdoc has given up trying to find something that works for me. It seems the meds have the opposite effect on me and make me feel worse instead of better. There are times when the depression will get me down so much or the mania will take a toll on me and I will beg the pdoc to find something for me but he comes up empty.

So now the fact is that I am unmedicated. I have just started working again even though it isn’t a full time job. The jobs come in increments like 2 weeks at a time working 6 days a week. I have had several “meltdowns” during these jobs and it is usually on my day off when I know I can cry uncontrollably and nobody will have to see me. I have felt suicidal on these jobs a few times and these jobs are always out of town so I am away from anybody who knows the truth about me.

When I come home to my husband and two adult sons, I am so tired and give out and can’t stand the idea of facing this house and all the work that needs to be done in it. I usually shut down which is a good thing. When I am not shut down then I am yelling at my husband and hitting him and kicking him and throwing things at him. I know at these times I am totally out of control but my husband takes it or hides in the bathroom which makes me angrier. I have begged him to call my therapist or pdoc when I am like this but he is the type of man that doesn’t want people to know and he also fears that my pdoc will put me in the hospitalyet again. Granted I have been inpatient over 50 times since 1994 and we are all tired of that scene but I know myself, ususally after the fact, that I can be a danger to my husband and at times to myself. I also know that I “get away” with it so I have no reason to stop. There have been times when my husband and I are out in the car and I get angry for whatever reason and will jerk the steering wheel or pull his hair or even slap him while he is driving. I have also been under the wheel and tried to run him over at least two times. Yet he still gets in the car with me and we make our way back to our chaotic home. I don’t just turn on him but also turn on myself. I will hate myself so much afterwards that I begin doing self harming behaviors. Once again, my husband has seen this happen several times and not on purpose just that he would walk in on me, and would not call my pdoc or therapist. He just wants to take care of it all ourself and just remember that it will get better. He does his best to convince me that it will pass and tomorrow I will be better and I listen to that and know it is better than being in the hospital.

It hurts me as I write all of this about myself but the facts are the facts. I am the type of person that has either fallen between the cracks or have full reign to do whatever it is I want and know that I will get away with it. Yes, I have the borderline dx too but don’t the pdocs understand that also? I am afraid sometimes what might happen during one of my angry fits of rage and I will admit that I have access to my weapon of choice due to having stupid people around me and I don’t mean that as an insult just that they don’t realize my capabilities at times. In my mind, I think that I won’t lose control and that I can do whatever I want and get away with it. I have been hospitalized several times for being a danger to somebody else as well as myself but I still don’t think the mental health system and my husband really get it. Don’t you agree with me?

I have fears about what I might do but I think they believe and bet on the fact that I would never do anything major so to speak. So yes, I feel like the boy who cried wolf and I know when and if the time comes that I am totally destructive and if I say anything about it which I do quite often, their reaction will be the same, that I will get past it. I just wonder if they will ever take me seriously and help me? I share this to show that it isn’t always the patients fault when they finally snap and go off the deep end. Usually there have been signs along the way but people around us refuse to acknowledge those signs and especially do something about them. They don’t realize how much we suffer and wish somebody would take the initiative and help us. I know I do but that hasn’t happened for me and I wonder what will it take to finally get somebody to hear my desperate cries for help?

My boyfriend has never been officially diagnosed with bipolar, but exhibits all the classic symptoms. He is not convinced that he has bipolar, but recognizes that he has anger issues, which have led to some violent incidents against me. He will not seek professional treatment as he doesn’t think they will be capable of addressing his issues and he says I can help him get better with my love. I do agree that unconditional love will help him, but cannot bear the fear that I constantly have. I love him dearly and would like to help him, but don’t want to go through with the experience of him getting violent with me again. He tries to make me feel guilty by telling me that if I loved him as much as I tell him I do, I would stick with him and take the chance. I don’t know what to do.

Dave,

I’m reading your materials. They’re very good. I feel a little overwhelmed about all the planning I need to do to help my husband with his bipolar. It’s do or die, though. We just can’t go through another destructive manic episode. He doesn’t get physically violent, but he gets beligerent, irritable, nasty, etc, and spends money out the wazoo. He just doesn’t stay on his medications. He acts like hes’ taking his meds, says he’s taking them, pretends he’s on board, yada yada yada. But he’s not.

I see a common thread on your blog. So many people who are married to or dating a bipolar person REALLY want to help them! And it seems like they want to help that person, even to their own detriment! Why is this?! I see it in myself also, although I do think I’ve moved past the “have to save him” phase into the “I have to save myself!” mode. I will try once again to help our family; I’m thankful that I have Dave’s materials and systems this time. But I don’t feel hugely obligated to help him, or save him. I do feel obligated to help our family and maintain my own health and sanity.

I was diagnosed with bp 10 years ago but was bipolar all my adult life. I have been stable for the last 5 years thanks to a good Doctor and therapist, the right medications and living my life drug and alcohol free. My comment here is anger has been something I’ve had to fight with almost on a daily basis. It seems that most if not all bipolars have the same problem with rage. While being on medication seems to make it easier to control but when you suddenly go off it the rage just goes wild. No one has been able to make me understand where the anger and rage comes from but its there. Just another great reason for staying on the meds.

jobs,
The secrect I believe, is that the bp person MUST WANT to seek help and follow a healthy plan to remain stable. That includes medication. LOVE alone does not do it. Love can only help motivate a person toward wanting to remain stable. My fiance knows that there are boundries to living a life with me that include staying on meds and living clean and free. Will your guy be able to make that move? Until then, all I can say is try your hardest to find others to spend time with or accept him as is. Being a supportive friend in the meantime if that is not too painful which it sound as if it is at the moment. He will always come back, and speaking from experience with my ex-BP love, I believe it gets easier to walk away each time. Especially if the BP includes being involve with other partners.
Someone else asked, “Why we are attracted to personality types with BP?”. I will share my reasons. First, they are very charismatic, even when they are not “high”. I love to be active and on the go and someone with a high level of energy is who I am attracted to. Also, they tend to feel deeper and express passion at level that is inline with my own. I am not a massacist but perhaps there is that element to be aware of. Are you a teacher or a nurse? I think we may attract people in need and tend to want to “fix” them. We can not. They must accept and own the reponsibiliy to seek help. They are also the ones who must first accept our support. We can only be there to help. We can not force them into acceptance or treatment.
My best to you.

I am nearly wetting myself laughing! People need to think things through if they believe David could influence drug company share prices by the odd mailing! It’s ludicrous! He would have to convince many thousands of people to rush and get drugs before it could raise half a penny on the share price! If those mailings do influence people – and I hope they do (no, I am not a shareholder in a drugs company!) – the effect wouldn’t register a pin head on share value!!

Next time any idiot accuses you of trying to maipulate drug company shares, David, just reply and say, “Yeah, I wish!” ;oD

Me thinks, the paranoia evident in these people suggests one of two things, or even a combination of both – they’re ill, just plain dumb or a bit of both!

My son Joel is 31 years old. He is Bipolar and BPD. He also has a mental defiency-he’s about 15 mentally. I’m not sure how long I can take anymore of this. I know inside of me he is going to hurt me soon. I finally got him to do an intake at a mental health facility this week. I don’t know if he will go to a follow up. I don’t know if he lied to them. He’s pretty good (as I am sure you all know). I kicked him out yesterday (again). He doesn’t (or refuses) to understand why. He thinks we hate him. My current husband (not his father) doesn’t believe in mental illness or in my son’s mental defiency. He thinks it is all an act. This sure makes life more difficult. My son abuses/uses drugs. He hangs with criminals and druggies. He is very self-distructive. I worry about him constantly. This is killing me. I sometimes think it would all be better if he were dead. Then I get really frightened that that might really happen. I also worry that my baby might kill someone else’s baby. I don’t know if I could live with that. I don’t know if I can live much longer will all of this. He balames everything on me. I know none of this is my fault. I just don’t know how to help him if he won’t get therapy and get on medication. His father, who is dying of lung cancer, doesn’t want anything do do with him. He last saw him in 1995. His siser is the same. All other realtives are either dead or it has been longer that 1995 since last contact. I am really the only person he has. He has three daughters whose mothers have gone in hiding. I can’t blame them. I miss my grandkids. It is not fair to me. I’m sure there are many folks out there in this mess. Someone, somewhere tell me how are you making it from morning to noon? I’m on all sorts of meds. I still don’t want to be here anymore.

Dave,
Thank you for the information you give us the person with Bipolar is my brother-in-law and he is getting worse and my mom and dad had to make him leave because he was being very violent with my sister he would curse her so bad and he wanted her to wait on him hand and foot and so he’s living on the streets and he keeps calling wanting to come back and he will behave himself. But, he has said this all before and my sister had to take a EPO on him to keep him away from our family.His family has disowned him , they have put up with all his life. He has threathened to kill and set there home on fire.All he cares about is money and his truck that he puts all his money into fixing it. He has been off of his medic-
ines since he has been gone and drinking.My sister is afraid of him and she is afraid he will kill himself and she would have to live with it the rest of her life. But, I told her if she stays with him he will kill her.We can’t get him to go back to the hospital to get back on his medicines. He said if someone has the police come and take him back to the hospital he will kill them.

Dave,

my partner was diagnosed with BP a few months ago – I always knew he had this since I met him. Things got completely out of hand a few months ago. He assulted me several times up to the point where he got so violent he tore my clothes to bits from my body. Assaulting, slapping me around. I still remember that evening clearely. He even told me that he will throw me out of the window of the flat we are living in (2nd floor). I immediately laid down on the floor so he could not push me out of the window. I then threw him on the floor, and sat on top of him and held his arms. He started biting me on my arm. Well, eventually he cooled down and took his stuff and left only to return an hour later. Sobbing and crying. He was ver very close to ending my life. This happened again 2 months later (before he started taking his meds)

I asked him to please let me take him to our GP to be evaluated.
My worst fears was confirmed when the doctor told him that he has BP disorder. GP started him on medication which worked wonderfully, but unfortunately he had severe side-effects from the meds. So the GP changed the medication to something else, initially starting him on a very low dosage. 2 weeks later we went back for his evaluation and the dr adjusted the meds dosage again. Then we moved into a new flat. That evening he went into one of his raging fits again. I did not hit him back, even though I am much taller and stronger than him. When I felt his fist against the side of my head, then the next one, then the next one, time just slowed to a crawl in my mind. I thought that I should keep calm and just remove him from the house – grabbed him by his waist and threw him out of the house. His rage continued, he damaged a very expensive chair of mine – he threw it from the 2nd floor – then he slammed his hand through one of the frot doors glass panes injuring himself with some nasty deep lacerations. He screamed that should open the door – I told him that if he does not calm down and start getting control of his behaviour – he cannot come back in. He threatened to bash down the door if I did not open it. then after about 2 minutes I had to open the door in fear of us getting a letter of the landlord 2 vacate the premises. He came back in and started pushing me around, smearing me full of blood, grabbing my by the neck, almost strangling me in anger. I was covered in blood and pushed him away then asking him to please remove his hands – he is out of control. I told him that I would phone the police and get him removed from hy home. He ordered me to clean up the glass in the hallway from the broken pane, which I refused. Told him that he broke it and he needs to start taking responsability for his actions and fits. I took him to hospital where the lacerations was surtured – when I phoned the GP & he increased the dosage of his medication yet again.

He seems more stable now – it’s been 3 weeks since he’s been on the increased dosage, so only time will tell how this will be affecting his BP

I have also sudgested tonight that he start helping *us* manage his BP disorder. He should have the desire to feel and act better – and also take his medication as prescribed by die doctor. And we will take it from there. Most of his family does not talk to him, and basically ignores his calls and e-mails. He also told me that his behaviour has been a part of him his whole life and also the ‘racing thoughts’ I also spoke to him regarding the fact that everyone – and I really mean everyone – wants nothing to do with him in the long run – because of his job history (unstable) financial insecurity and *strange strange* behaviour, thoughts and ideas sometimes.

Hopefully the future will be more rose coloured. Unfortunately love alone will not help, but only hard work, dedication and a good dose of common sense, amongst other things

Dave

where can I find Jerrey’s (whom you spoke about in the e-mail) original comment/e-mail address…

Thx
Deon
deonvr at gmail dot com

helenm and liz,
Thank you. I’m not a teacher or a nurse but I have recognized my own patterns…mania has never been a friend of mine. This is my 2nd bipolar relationship. Both men, very introverted normally… sensitive and insightful. The first man slept with my best friend for about 6 months before I figured it out. I left him. When he realized I was never coming back, he tried to kill himself. Thankfully, he wasn’t successful. For years I’ve felt responsible as I watch him struggle and know that he wants me back. I see all that history repeating itself now. My current relationship…we had a pact to never stop believing in each other. Leaving him feels like I’ve stopped believing even though in my heart I haven’t. I love him so much. It’s hard to watch someone you love struggle and not be able to stop it. This is when I pray and I cry and I pray. May God be by ALL your sides.

VICKI, some of your descriptions sound extremely dangerous, especially the scene with your husband in the car. You have the sense to know that you need medication and your doctors don’t seem to have found the right “cocktail” for you yet. You need to find the right doctor/pdoc, who will probably do some tests to find out what medicine works for you. It looks like your husband is very supportive, which helps. Dave mentioned in one of his emails a couple of weeks ago that he has a list of doctors. Also, I remember there was a bipolar psychiatrist on this blog not long ago, who may be able to help. Best of luck!

This sort of news is scary and shocking. However, we don’t know for sure whether the gunman was bipolar or something else.

I agree with Liz that bipolar people can be very charming, passionate and full of fun while they are “up”. Also their creativity and often unconventional ideas are attractive to me, as I am a bit like that myself. I have known a number of bipolar people over the years in various situations – some on medication, some not and in denial about their condition, but I have never known one to be violent. My boyfriend before he was diagnosed and on the right medicine, from what I heard, was very irresponsible and reckless during a manic episode and suicidal during a depressive episode. But he was never violent or did any harm to anyone – just doesn’t have that tendency. The same goes for my ex-husband. Although he refuses to get help and denies that he has a problem, he can be verbally abusive, but never physically violent.

The bipolar landlady I stayed with for a while, was aggressive enough and scared me at times, especially when she had PMT. But she never physically attacked me. She was barred from a number of pubs for being loud mouthed and disruptive. She was diagnosed, but refused to take medicine or see a psychiatrist or therapist, calling them all the names under the sun and “It’s them who are all mad, not me!” She had a child, then 5 years old, who she abused verbally and emotionally, though not physically. Her ex-husband was trying to gain full custody – I never heard the outcome, so don’t know what happened. Although at the time she didn’t physically harm anyone, it would never surprise me if one day I heard her name on the news in connection with something terrible.

In the street where I lived with my now ex-husband was a schizophrenic (not bipolar) young man. He was very polite and well mannered and normal while he took his medicine. But he often forgot or deliberately didn’t want to take it and when he was off the medicine he was “off his head”. He would throw things around, shout, swear and threaten people. Once he tried to strangle his doctor. The last time he was hospitalised the doctors worked out that, as he could not be trusted to take his medicine regularly, it was best for him to have an injection every now and then. That seems to have put him back on the right track again.

dear dave,one nite when i got home from work me and my family planned to spend the nite in, when the phone rang,it was family,they told me that my nephew had murdered my sister and her husband and that it was on the local news,we hadnt seen the news,isaid.my nephew had been in and out of jail alot and eventually went to prison while in there they put him on meds for bipolor/scitzophrinia.he had been released and was livin with his mom(my sister)and her husband. he ran out of meds and they had been trying to get more but couldnt threw his parole officer.2 weekslater,he decapitated and dismembered my sister and her husband and did other grusom things!he eventually called 911 and said he had killed his mom HELP! when the police arrived the house was a bloody mess and he was laying in the floor with his moms head beside him and a knife in his rectom! he is now in prison for life wearing a colostimy bag.i found out my son that is only 12 has bipolor.i am very worried about his future and mine trying to raise him.the med they put him on doesnt completely control his anger.i wanted to share this with u and your readers and to tell you thanks for your sharing and understanding,if theres any thing you can tell me to help me cope please feel free,your friend kat

i don’t want to leave a comment like everyone else dating a bipolar person, but i can’t help it because i’m going through the same things. my boyfriend is a great guy, a wonderful father. and his nickname is angry name (don’t want to put his name).
here’s my situation: my bf knows he’s bi polar. he says when he was younger he had to go to counceling i don’t think he’s been on medication before.
he has been mildly violent.like he pushed me before. but the thing i worry about is that every time we get into an arguement, which is usually him yelling and me biting my tounge, he threatens me. he tells me he’s going to beat my ass. afterwards when we talk about it he will say that he just says things like that to scare me. he says that he would never do something like that.
one time he even admitted to me that he uses his anger. that he knows people get scared of him so he uses his anger basically to control people, although again he doesn’t do that to me, well intentionally anyway.
the thing about it is, he knows when he’s acting like this. after every ‘episode’ he always comes and cries and apologizes to me and i do believe that he’s sincere.
but how do i know if the threats will become something more one day. and i’ll be totally blindsided. and should i tell him how i feel without holding back or would that just make things worse?

Gra’

LMAO!!

BP

To KAT: You have my deepest sympathy on the tragic loss of your sister and her husband. Also, the deplorable condition of your nephew. If only someone had cared enough to see that he took his medications…

I’m sorry your son has bipolar. Make sure he gets a good doctor and follows Dave’s succinct treatment plan. Try to control his rages as best you can, though only through proper treatment with medications can do that. And don’t waiver in your love for him. He will need it as he navigates his life with this dis-ease.

It’s not easy being a person with bipolar disorder. I had my first nervous breakdown 40 years ago, and my last hospitalization 31 years ago – so it IS possible to lead a fairly stable and highly-functional life with bipolar. But you MUST follow his doctor’s regimen, and, sometimes, give him “tough love.”

You are in my prayers as you deal with your grave situation. I wish you God’s patience and love.

As a bp supporter I can attest to the fact that unstabality in treatment can spawn horrible things. although my partner has not been professionally diagnosed with bp. I have been bitten.hit on threatend etc. After living wiath someone for 13+ years and have witnessed this dissorder develope & I know that Dave’s stories are definently the truths. I am not giving up & will continue to try & get my partner the help taht he needs. I have been trying to do it all myself but don’t have the time & resources to complete what needs to bre done. I am in the process of loosing everything because I have been supporting a loved one for the last 12 month & my financial resources are just about depleted. I have tho turn everything over to my maker now. I have no one elses support. But I believe one day it will come my way (HELP) that is.And dave, thank you for all the research & advise you share so unselfishly.

Dave, Indianapolis

Anonymous,
Hi,I’m glad that my view helped. Right now I am working very hard to stand by those boundaries. It’s a fine line and my fiancé does turn to alcohol when things get stressful. He is working a new job and it is very physical. He had back surgery about 5 years ago and has not had to work a steady job in years because of family money. His previous partner did not see his sporadic working or drinking habits as detrimental. Long story short, he wants me to accept the drinking right now because he is in pain. He knows that I do not and I have tried to get him to seek alternative pain management. In the meantime, I get lied to which is worse than the drinking. I am sitting back and waiting until he realizes that drinking isn’t the answer, and I pray that it doesn’t take him into a depression. He is still taking his other meds…lithium and zyprexa but they could be washed out if this continues. It hasn’t been heavy and he only has another day before going back to work and then he will not use alcohol(he can’t and do this job the next day). This time I am trying to wait it out and give him time to come back to himself and me on his own. Right now he has distanced himself and sees me as the enemy. There can be a fine line between wanting to be a helper and support person and the one who has to do it all. Like I have said before, he has to want this life and quite frankly I think it scares him. Does he get violent? No, but the rage can surface when he drinks even a few beers and it’s not pretty. What I really thinks triggers the rage is the fact that he isn’t being true to himself, or what I have learned to identify as being in a state of, “self-betrayal”. He does not see it that way and wants to “blame” me for becoming upset over the lying in regard to where he is when he goes out for a few. That is what I have made the focus and the boundary for the moment, I will not accept the lying first of all and the cause is the addiction… So here I am, standing my ground about lying. The answer I get to this is, “OK, I was wrong to lye and now when I stop for a drink you will get the truth, but only if I can trust that you won’t get upset about it.” Well, of course it upsets me but I will try not react to the drinking next time. I also know that he will see the light again, and when he does my heart will be open. Keeping it open means I have decided what is more important and that is building trust and honesty in our relationship. Once he knows that I am only here to love and support him, I am confident that he will come back to managing this illness. Does anyone really know of a person with BP who can drink and leave it a just a few? He can not and yet he tries. I really do not believe that to be possible and the doctor has actually given him medication that will lessen the desire to drink. This is one thing he has yet to do. It is not Anabuse but less severe, I can’t recall the name of it but as someone else said, “you can lead a horse to water but…you can’t make him drink” or not drink and take this medicine to help him in this case. He say, too many pills… I keep my heart at peace and hold tight to my sense of who I am…a sense of humor helps too.
Here is what I really want to say to you though. Please forgive the side steeping into my own story. I hope that you will remain strong and not accept the abuse as I would not accept the lying. If it takes stepping away perhaps that will motivate him into seeking treatment. Does he realize that he has been hurting you after the fact? That is when I believe he that he would be the most receptive to seeking medical help. Have you approached him and been insistent about seeking help when he is asking forgiveness? Have the numbers of a few good doctors ready and offer to make the calls if necessary. This is how I handled it and then made it a condition for the sake of our relationship and for our love to continue to grow strong. Since we live together and want to make it work no matter what he was agreeable. I truly wish you the best in getting him to see the light. You are an angel on Earth, but you can’t help until he is ready. I met my fiancé 15 years ago and had to walk away then. Now he is ready and accepting of the fact that he will be on meds for the rest of his life. This is not easy but our love is strong and our ups certainly out way the downs this time around.
Take care and my thought are with you,
Liz

My fiance is off his meds cause he spends the money before i can buy them. this has been going on for at least lets say 3-4 months. he has gotten more and more violent since then and also very suspicious of everyone. the last incident was just this past Friday when he pulled two knives on me and threatened to kill me if i didn’t say that i did something i hadn’t so i tried to concoct a story to say that i did. i barely escaped with my life. when he walked away for a brief moment i think to smoke i ran to the balcony door and barely got out by the skin of my teeth. he dropped the knives in the process of trying to stop me and i jumped off the balcony (2nd floor) topless and barefoot. he threw a shirt to me when he saw what i did and i ran away.

at the beginning of the episode i knew he was going to flip cause he had been on edge for most of the week due to our living situation and finances. he stayed out the night before and lost the money we had to move out and take care of our car. then he came home and began making accusations and said he saw me in the window looking out when i was sound asleep (i had gone to sleep exhausted after waiting up for him for 5 hours and being up all night before dealing with his anxiety i fell into a dead sleep and didn’t even hear him come in).

That morning when i awoke i called him and he screamed “WHAT” and i knew it had begun. i went to the door to use the bathroom it was locked so i knocked. when he came to the door (he looked like a wild animal) he yelled at me again slammed the door and told me to use the broken toilet. i called a friend to come and pick me up, packed my bag and quietly left the house. when he heard the door slam he chased me and begged me to come back and apologized said he was just freshening up to apologize to me. dumb me, i went back and as soon as i was inside he slammed the door and proceeded to punch, choke and brutalize me forbidding me to scream, or talk all this before finally pulling out the knives when i went to the kitchen. he has no-one who understands his condition but me. i have been his supporter for 2 years. i have two daughters and thank GOD the are with my mom right now and never saw the violence but they know something is wrong and don’t really like him. i feel torn between two lovers cause i love my children and they need me to grow up mentally healthy as well and then there’s him and he’s so lovable when he’s good. i really don’t know what to do cause he wants me to come back and we need to move out tomorrow and i’m terrified and my family want me out of there.

Lost Without You. I’m not a doc or any kind of professional in the psychiatrict field but I do know about the kind of rage he has expressed towards you. Knowing that, I’d suggest that you are at severe risk and recommend you get out now before you lose your life and your kids, their Mum. He may be the most loving and caring guy om Earth when he’s stable, and if he did anything to you, he may quite easily be wracked with such remorse that he would instantly kill himself because he loves you. But knowing he’d deeply regret harming you after the fact wouldn’t do YOU any good! Realise if he’s hit you once, almost certain he’ll do it again unless he gets immediate treatment. If he doesn’t, just watch out for the violence – fists snd feet at best, knives at worst – to come flying at you with great ferocity.
For what it’s worth, that’s my advice, and I’m a BP who has once (I hope only once…) been filled with murderous feelings and just looking for an excuse to fulfill them. But I’m lovely … for now.

i am diagnosed with bipolar. i just took child development and decided to learn more about my mothers postpartem psychosis by doing my presentation on it. 2 birds right? turns out they think there is a link to bipolar and post partem psychosis. turns out after evaluating 5 different mothers who actually killed thier children… i can see the likenesses. i will not accept my personality has to be medicated. can i keep a job? no. can i keep a friend or a relationship with a man? no. Do all of my teachers hate me? yes. doesnt matter… i am convinced that i was taught poorly, that i was sheltered and raised by someone who was bipolar. this can be changed i can unlearn this. so far this train of thought has gotten me off meds, Not without reprocussions. I got my picture on the front page of my hometown paper taken mid- assaulting a minister on the courthouse lawn for having an anti abortion rally on MY street…, that was coming off of them. then i lost my boyfriend, my job, dropped out of college and went into the woods to live in my van. it took me 2 years to get back to where i have a job a boyfriend and i am in school. i am almost 30 and had been concidering the clock on having children. now that i have worked so hard on this horrible presentation i want to go back to my van. would i be doing everyone a favor? he tries so hard to show me he loves me, would i be showing everyone how much i love them if i just stop now and i wont kill myself. no worries i wont subject my own children to this so i wont be having them and i wont hate on other people for it, i know that is my usual methode of handling things but i just keep thinking if i can do this i can show others how i did it. i like me, just nobody else does and i am who i am and refuse to take medicine for it. the violence is the scary part. its the part of me i’m so scared of, it happens so fast, everything else i seem to be able to catch in time with frustrating effort, they tell me to excersize but everytime i do i build muscle like a man and i seriously attack people…i cant believe it myself. i dont eat or workout i only weigh 100 pounds so i cant hurt anybody. i wanted a gun for protection in my van but i know that i need protection from myself most of all and other people should be armed if they disagree with me at the wrong time. so, i cant let me have one. this is the scariest part. they dont know how hard i am trying, so they cant be blamed for not understanding me, but something happens when i know how hard i am trying and everyone is still disappointed with me and when they start they dont know… at the worst they think i am a selfish bitch, nobody knows i am bipolar unless i tell them, nobody knows enough to know that means back the fuck up, i dont want to collect disability. i want to be an art therapist, i dont want to be alone i want all my friends to forgive me, i am smart but no one seems to think so but me, i am the only one who thinks i’ll make it there unmedicated. i had an opportunity the other day, well i have one everyday, but i only allow myself the ones i think anyone would take. basically, i was right and the other person was wrong and making a seen about it and i combined myself and i made her look like an ass without even raising my voice or making a threatening gesture, there were other people and they disagreed with me, as usual, and i insulted them all like a real bitch! but i was in control and i didnt cry or do any of the things a person earns themselves a diagnosis by doing. its really something, i had been avoiding confrontation by avoiding the world and i was able to show myself that day that its getting better, i would really appreciate if even one professional has been diagnosed with this and made it, without taking the meds, to contact me. i need my own kind and not the ones who arent trying. i want to do this. i think there is in all likelyhood a good chance my behavior is learned and with alot of time and effort it can be adapted without meds, nobody i have gone to for therapy has wanted to do anything other than medicate me and talk about my mother. i am in school for therapy. i have learned alot, right under thier noses and they dont KNOW. i almost have my batchelors. i go to school when i am depressed not manic, i cant do this manic. i like manic while i am doing it but i just am so embarrassed when it’s over. i handle it by creating a new image and going to a big city and getting lost in sex and drugs until i’m spent. then i get like really timid and scared of all the stuff i just did and i hide in school hoping nobody KNOWS. i want to be an unmedicated bipolar art therapist i want to look at my people someday and tell them we can so do this. I’m not asking for anyone elses opinion, if you have nothing nice to say i am not the one to say it to, but if i could find one other who thinks they are seriously getting better, without meds it would help me to feel that i am not lieing to myself. i have this feeling that if i ever succeed this will all be like a bad dream and they will all tell me oh so sorry we must have misdiagnosed you. there are 9 people who i would like to show my future degree to, one person flat told me this cant be done. i’ll never forget who those people are.
wish me luck!

Liza:

Maybe you’re getting bad side effects from your meds so you prefer not to take them. I found some all natural medications on line which my fiance is taking and they are helping with no side effects. Maybe that would help.

You’re really testing very dangerous waters the way you’re going. Just think of your meds as either a vitamin or other medication you need. Your quality of life will be much better if you get on meds that help you maintain your balance.

check out http://www.nativeremedies.com also http://www.ExclusiveHealthProducts.com/happy3for33.html

Check with your doctor and read the testimonials.

They might help you too.

Good Luck to you

HelenM said, “…you have the right to deny that you need meds but do not have the right to pull the insanity card out when you have killed someone or something else to land you in jail looking at a very long term, possibly death penalty, in prison because you are not insane, you simply need the right combination of meds and a good Psych.”
Helen, you assume that a person in Liza’s state of mind is capable of making a rational decision about whether or not to take the medication. That may not be the case! In such an event, temporary insanity can (and should) be a “get out of jail” card. Jail should not be a substitute for hospitalisation and proper treatment.
In my view, the prisons in the UK are filled by a lot of people who are mentally ill, who need treatment, not punishment but there is such an appetite for revenge, ans so little understanding of how mental illness can affect people sometimes in the most subtle, yet significant ways, and sometimes for very short spaces of time. So, just because someone with BP – even one who is Type 2 – can seem totally compus mentis every time you meet them, it doesn’t mean they are all the time every week or month! I’m Type 2. Anyone who knows me would tell you I am generally of a kind temperament, and I couldn’t hurt a fly! But on the 1st December last year I got into such a mood that I was murderous! I went out looking for someone bad, someone who “deserved it” and not just to whop them! This dreadful period lasted about 3-4 hours, during which time I didn’t find anyone who deserved it! (Thankfully!) It’s never happened before and not since. I hope it never does again! But if anything had happened, few – if any – people who know me would have believed I could have been so out of control! They would have assumed I was compus mentis if I’d done the dirty deed because they’ve never known me to be anything else!

dear dave please remove me from your comment list.i dont wish to recieve any more. i tryed to unsubscribe but it wouldnt let me. so it would be very appreciated if you could remove me from your list thank you your friend kat

For Graham N:
I made that statement for “shock therapy” as I have lived with this person in male form, sounds exactly like him, except he got rid of all his guns because I think he was scared of himself and what he would do. Never suicide, always threatening to take a lot of “them” out before they got to him. The prisons in the US are full of mentally ill people and they get a little mental help, typically they do this so they can get paroled out early for good behavior and basically it works because our jails and prisons are overflowing with both those who need to be in a mental institution and the ones who need to be in prison. The problem is the ones who need mental help rarely follow up with better treatment when they get out and go right back to their old habits of “There is nothing wrong with me, the rest of the world is crazy” and then they are back in prison before the get off parole. I, personally, prefer to stay as stable as possible, and not land in jail. I have been in the County Jail for 90 days a long time ago (about 33 years ago) for being out of control. but it is usually like a revolving door. I can say this with a good bit of knowledge because of what has happened with my brothers and my 1st ex. I realize this person probably isn’t capable of sound judgment right now, nor reasoning, but reading her blog hit a nerve with me as I stated earlier I have lived with the male version of her description and sometimes “shock therapy” worked him so I figured I had nothing to lose, if she even reads these blogs, to try and make her see how insane she actually sounded. Didn’t mean to set anyone off or hurt somebody else with this one. Sorry if it offended anyone else.

For Graham N:
Thanks, sometimes “shock therapy” works and sometimes it is wasted breathe as I am indeed a person with Bi-polar Disorder married, once again to man with BPD and have my 21 y/o Bi-polar daughter, of whom both are in a manic state and I have a very difficult time being the supporter sometimes, as you can probably imagine. I think a lot of how nice it would be to go to sleep and not wake up during these times. (not suicidal, just wish God would take me home) Hope you never go back to the dark spot again. Good luck with your new relationship. My Love and Prayers for you and all who have to deal with this devilish disease.

My Mom is 60, been diagnosed as bipolar since her 20’s. Some docs say she is schizophrenic also. They are constantly changing her long lists of meds. Right now she is going through paranoia and I think her sisters are going to institutionalize her. Are there any places she can go, get off the meds, and start over so we can get the right ones for her? She hasn’t been herself for quite a while and currenty back on Lithium and many others….I am scared for her.

If your dating someone who is bipolar, and thinking about marriage…..please reconsider. In November my husband was diagnosed Bipolar, this was after a manic episode in which he woke up and was disoriented. He woke me from a dead sleep to fight, when i finally got up he attacked me, and choked me. I threatened to call the police, he armed himself heavily, at one point i thought he would shoot me and my five year old. I actually placed my hands over her ears so she would not hear the shot because I was unsure if he was going to go for us or himself. He planned on having a standoff with the police but once i was allowed to leave with my daughter I just ran, when it was safe to return I did…a good friend recognized what had happened and told me to get to a doctor quick. I did, he was medicated, and we were golden…until…I still fear him, he still has manic episodes but goes from mr perfect to freddy krueger in two seconds. He describes these episodes as watching a movie where he sees everything going on, but is so involved he has to see how it ends, he can never just quit. Once he was diagnosed with an illness i tricked myself into thinking his violence and abuse was “part of his disease” and leaving him was no different than abandoning a spouse who had lost a a limb in a car accident, or been badly burned…leaving just seemed cruel. Tonight after he put two holes in our newly repaired walls, tore the door knobs off of the doors, broke the computer and printer, i decided staying was cruel…cruel to my daughter, cruel to my sanity, cruel to my family who drives over to check on me if I dont answer my phone on the first ring. This message is nothing more than all of you witnessing a 10 year wife finding the strength to let him figure this one out on his own…i helped him get medicated, theres nothing more I can do for him. I need to find safety, security, and peace for me and my daughter. His health is important, but so is ours. Our story starts with a guy who had basic agoraphobia (fear of people large crowds etc) lite anxiety…over the years I catered to this, then the depression, the shady work history, the couch potato summers and winters, the blame carrier for anything that wasnt perfect. I took over his life, he had no responsibility, i managed the finances, cleaned the garage, maintained the house, the cars and the yard (he would mow the first part of every summer, and always get the a/c going. He had no use, no control, no responisbility, essentially…he had no purpose. I blame myself for letting that happen, perhaps if he owned himself things would be different. I love this guy like there is no tomorrow…over the years i have been called every dirty rotten name in the book. I have been pushed out of moving cars, spit on, slapped, held down, tripped, had my hair pulled, had guns pulled on me, repaired and replaced half the stuff in my house because he breaks it…even left out of state with no money, no wallet and no ID. I have slept in parking lots, familys basements, and on mud room floors of friends. I have been homeless, hungry,lonely and suicidal. But you would never guess it because I hide this with a brilliant smile, and a witty sense of humor every where i go. I turn my pain into joy and try to pass it around to keep myself sane. I search for even a fun conversation from store clerks….or car wash attendants just because I need a smile. My husband can be the sweetest, massaging my back nightly, bringing me breakfast in bed, drawing candle lit baths for me, apologizing and communicating, and BOOM…hes armed and dangerous and Im the dirty sleezy nasty blankety blank he made the mistake of marrying. In my opionion BP is a tragic and chronic disease that we can medicate for (he still does this crap on medication, just less often)that can destroy 1 life or several. Im sorry this has my man…but Im not going to let it have me and my daughter anymore. (I love you darling, I hope you get well.)

Wouldn’t it be great if manic bipolar patiemts carried a sign or a tattoo that warned healthy and non violent citizens of their illness? It would be . 3 weeks ago I was viciously attacked by a woman by the name of Jasmine Martin. She was obviously dealing with a very manic episode and I should have listened to my gut , that something wasn’t right with a woman yelling at the top of her lungs as she was. But, me, Miss the wolrd is a good place, all we need is love approached Miss Jasmine Martin ( an Oakland native) only to be punched on the head 9 times. I did not hit her back. Something gave me the impression that fighting this raging bull was sill advised. I mean, this woman punched me, I never lifted one finger against her . She then pulled my hair and actually the palm of her hands . I mean it was an absolute horror. I am fearful of crazy people. In fact, if I ever meet someone and they disclose they are bipolar, I will simply walk the other way. I takes someone who does not value their life or someone who wants to be sitting in jail and crossing their fingers for a judge of jury to believe this type of horror to want to get involved with a Bipolar person. They are capable of killing . PERIOD. PERIOD. I called the police and Jasmine is in jail today. She should stay there. I have no remorse for her. She almost caused irreparable damage to my brain. What saddens me is how her stupid mother, Gwen dealt with the situation. She knows her daughter is ill and I am sure has dealt with jasmine misbehaving and she did not have it in her to simply say ” I am so sorry ” to me and maybe help me understand her real daughter when she is not ill. So, all around, I want ZERO to do with bipolar people. I am now mindful of people. I am not as helpful to total strangers as I used to be . I got lucky this time, next time, I may not be. But I am fighting to regain my trust for society in genral. I don’t want jasmine’s sickness to affect me that it even dents my beautiful character. I was popping ibuprofen like it was water just so I could sleep. As I write this , I can still feel the tingling pain her violent blows to my head caused. I pray this woman did not do any permanent damage to brain. I pray . I pray.

Luke
I take it you don’t have BP but observe someone with it. Correct? Therefore, you erroneously assume that someone with BP can make strong rational decisions even when they are being treated. That is not so. Taking the medication doesn’t make someone well and completely rational; at best it helps control, not cure, their illness. Even with the drugs, the BP can “break through” causing moments of total insanity! And in some cases, the drugs barely work anyway, especially in the first few months or even years, while the correct drug regime is found.

And then there are inherent problems with the drug treatments that in themselves can cause a BP patient to flip, when the cure is worse than the illness, so to speak. Sometimes the drug treatments can make someone with BP feel a whole lot worse than without it. For example, I have known someone who experiences long periods of mania, which made him feel euphoric and happy but totally out of touch with reality and not functional in the real world. But the drugs he takes reduces that mania into a constant, unremitting depression.

I don’t know if you have ever experienced a clinical depression. I can vouch that, at its worst, it is intolerable. I mean intolerable. You would do anything, absolutely anything, to get out of that state. Someone with BP feeling that way seem to offer many of them three choices:
1. Go back to the pDoc, in whom you have no confidence because s/he prescribed the stuff in the first place and find it convenient for you to stay on the stuff, or be prescribed something else you have little confidence won’t do any better than the last (they may have been tried on many different drugs by then, none of them giving much relief);
2. Kill yourself;
3. Stop taking the medication
Obviously, 3) is the more attractive because it will give relieve them from the depression and make them feel really good. Trouble is with mania can come extreme agitation, aggression and irritability, and that is when they may become dangerous to themselves and others.

You see, treating BP isn’t about getting someone sane from insane. It’s about trying to keep them more likely to be sane than insane, and attempting to make their inherently unstable moods more stable or, at least, less extreme. For example, my drug regime doesn’t cure my mood swings – I still move between hypomania and depression. But what it does do is squeeze in the extremes towards a line of “normality” which in my case may not be the same line of “normality” as it is for you. For me, my normal line is a persistent and unrelenting low-level depression; it’s not like being drowned in the way of an overwhelming big clinical depression, it is more a drip-drip water torture. And even then, something can throw me into am agitated state in depression or hypomania, the BP may break through, and cause me to behave in an inappropriate way. On one occasion, that breakthrough made me very much an extreme threat to the safety of others. But no one was hurt and that state of mind went away inside a few hours. That is the nature of the beast – always there, sometimes asleep, sometimes drowsy, sometimes wide awake.

You see, treating BP isn’t about getting someone sane from insane. It’s about trying to keep them more likely to be sane than insane, and attempting to make their inherently unstable moods more stable or, at least, less extreme. For example, my drug regime doesn’t cure my mood swings – I still move between hypomania and depression. But what it does do is squeeze in the extremes towards a line of “normality” which in my case may not be the same line of “normality” as it is for you. For me, my normal line is a persistent and unrelenting low-level depression; it’s not like being drowned in the way of an overwhelming big clinical depression, it is more a drip-drip water torture. And even then, something can throw me into am agitated state in depression or hypomania, the BP may break through, and cause me to behave in an inappropriate way. On one occasion, that breakthrough made me very much an extreme threat to the safety of others. But no one was hurt and that state of mind went away inside a few hours. That is the nature of the beast – always there, sometimes asleep, sometimes drowsy, sometimes wide awake.

And I heard from people who know her that she was feeling suicidal. I know this is sounds wrong, but had she taken her own life earlier that day, the world will be a happier place. period. So she went from being suicidal to causing harm to others. c’mon

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Luke, I cannot know what you have suffered because I am not you. I cannot even say I know what she is going through because we are all different even in BP. But I can imagine that she is going through hell or else she would not be self-medicating, which is a dangerous thing to do if you are already taking drugs for the BP; the hash – like others – beggars up the mood controls of the proper medication, but people only self-medicate because the prescribed drugs aren’t touching how they feel. And then, “pop”!

Sure, having BP isn’t always an excuse for violence. It’s a reason, but it is mitigation because we cannot help being BP and we cannot help how it can take over our emotions. It affects people in different ways. Someone I know got so hooked onto her enhanced sex drive during a manic phase, she became a hooker! “I like sex so much I may as well get paid for doing it…” she said! (When the manic phase subsided, she went back to her career as a writer and is now a best selling author.)

Graham,

I thank you so much for helping me understand what was going on in her head. Wow, I should have kept walking. Now, I have to get an MRI for my brain, I don’t know what damage she has done to me. I am angry and it is natural. I am so speechless right now. Her illness has already robbed me of 3 weeks of productive life. Today as another one. It was not her fault, it was obviously my fault for wanting to play guardian angel to a manic BP.

Hi,

I was diagnosed with BPD when I was 16,
and ill with it until I was 19.

Then, I had 21 years of health with no
medications of any kind.

At the age of 40, with the delivery of
healthy twins, I became manic. I am
on medications now and raising my 6 children. I am 55.

The 21 years of remission were wonderful. I graduated from college with a 3.6. I married a wonderful man.

Not everyone does evil things when they go off their medications. I would have hated to have been on medication during my pregnancies.

Skuya