Hi,
How’s it going? I wanted to write you something
really quick about a person that called yesterday.
This person actually got one of my courses/systems
and her daughter has bipolar disorder. She was
a REALLY nice person.
I felt really bad for her because her daughter’s
bipolar disorder was, what I call, running over
her.
Her daughter had run her through the
ringer.
She asked me on the f.ree consultation form
that she sent in for NON medical and NON
legal questions because I am NOT a doctor,
lawyer, accountant, insurance person, etc:),
about what to do concerning her daughter.
It’s kind of a long story so I won’t go
over it here. But the bottom line is her
daughter had done a number of bad things.
This person wanted to know what to do
since the daughter was now in jail for
doing something bad. I don’t want to
give the exact details for privacy reason.
Anyway, the mother could bail the daughter
out of jail and was asking my opinion.
The case worker said to leave her in jail
to learn a lesson that she needs to take
her bipolar disorder seriously and take
her bipolar disorder mediations as prescribed.
I agreed with the case worker. The mother
was going to decide between bailing her
daughter out again in more ways than one.
She was speaking about the jail but she had
“bailed” her daughter out of all kinds of
other problems for a long time.
I could totally relate myself. I have bailed
my mom out of so many things. NEVER jail
however but taxes, car payments, getting
a car, getting a job, undoing what she did
to neighbors, family members, mistakes
made at all kinds of jobs, mistakes made
with her purchases, etc. etc. etc. I paid
her taxes 7 years in a row.
Anyway, I told this woman that I had enabled
my mom. The woman said she was enabled her
daughter. I agreed. She said it was so hard
to not do it. She was trying the “tough
love” approach. That’s something I speak about
in my course. She said it wasn’t working but
it worked sometimes.
I asked her some questions because I could
tell she was unsure what to do. I asked her:
Have you been helping your daughter for many
years? YES!
Have you been bailing your daughter out on
all kinds of things including financial things?
YES!
Does your daughter appreciate what you have done?
NO!
Does your daughter take her medication as prescribed
and go to a doctor regularly? NO!
Do you think what you have done with your daughter
has worked or is working? NO!
Do you know what the definition of insanity is?
She paused and I think she may have thought I
was crazy because that question doesn’t really
go with my other ones. I told her.
It’s doing the same thing over and over and
hoping for a different result.
I then asked her, do you think if you bailed
your daughter out of all her problems for the
next 10 to 20 years, would you get a different
result? Would one day she snap out of it and
start doing the right thing? She laughed
and started to understand she was off track.
I told her that’s how I started doing what
I do what my mom. I said to myself one day.
“Self, hmmm. You’ve spent over $250,000 on
mom over 7 years…how’s that working?”
I said back to myself “Hmm. Not well. She
needs more money each month.”
“Self, do I think if I keep fixing my mom’s
problems she will get better all of a sudden?”
I said back to myself, “No. I have tested my
one way of doing it, the test has failed, I
need a new plan, strategy, etc.”
NO I don’t have dissociate identity disorder
and NO I am not crazy. I know I will get emails
that say something like “You know, if you talk
to yourself, that means you have a mental illness,
your mom has a mental illness so why don’t you
start looking at yourself.”
I have to laugh because that’s going to come from
some people on my list that have bipolar disorder
and aren’t really stable. They are going to read
this and then want to get my off track so I
start thinking about whether or not I have mental
illness because I had a conversation with myself.
Okay, back to the point so I don’t look like I
have ADD.
The mistake so many people make who are supporters
is this: They enable. They keep on doing EVERYTHING
for a person with bipolar disorder for years.
It gets worse and worse because there is NO reason
for the person to get better. I asked the nice
lady I spoke to, “Do you think if you keep doing
the same thing longer, it will some how work magically?”
She said no.
I asked her this important question as well:
IS THERE ANY REASON FOR YOUR DAUGHTER TO
STAY ON HER MEDICATIONS?
I answered it for her. There’s no reason. Since this
woman handles all her problems from not taking medication,
what’s the incentive to take medication? There’s none.
With myself and my mom, I started to give incentives to
do the right thing. If my mom doesn’t keep her finances
together, she will go broke and I will not pay a dime.
There are only two things that I will always pay for
which I describe in my supporter course/system but I
don’t want to reveal here because it needs a 30 minute
conversation as to why these two things.
There’s a lot to learn about this. I teach it
extensively in my courses/systems. If you have
bipolar disorder, you can learn how to avoid
creating huge problems for the people around
you following a number of techniques.
SUPPORTING AN ADULT?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.survivebipolar.net
I ALMOST FORGOT SOMETHING
What’s my mom think? She loves what I did.
Really. She likes to be independent and
she is now. She is glad that I broke
the dependency chains. She said to me
the other day “Who wants to be
totally dependent on someone? Not me.”
I have to run. Have a great day.
Your Friend,
Dave
P.S. Check out my F.ree blog with copies of emails
that I have sent in the past and lots of great
information for you:
http://www.bipolarcentral.com/supporterblog/
P.P.S Check out my F.ree podcast. Hear me give
mini seminars designed to teach you information you can’t learn anywhere else.
This comment has been removed by the author.
The longer those who enable the longer the person will be most likley to stay in that postion for ever. Enablers stop and think. I could be that way i choose not too. i deal w my problems myself the best i know how w skills, Is hard at first but Its alot better than being the one who accoutts for the supporters who want to lock you in your mental illness.
My daughter has bipolar disorder. We did not know this until she was an adult, so we went though some pretty harrowing experiences. Tough love does help. She is a loving mother, daughter, wife now, but she still sets her husband and me up often. I choose to ignore most of it, which she gets frustrated with, because I am the one she zeros in on, but she is trying so very hard.
I agree with leaving this lady’s daughter in jail for the moment. I have always stood by my daughter, but made her be responsible for her actions. She learned that she IS responsible for them, and cannot blame others for what she does, it no longer works most of the time.
We have gone though the whole spectrum of the seedy side of the tracks, but have come through it, battered but better for it.
Dave keep up the good work,You cant help all the people all of the time, but helping just a few or even one, is worth the trouble. Your friend Franklin
I can completely relate to this one. I am 30, mom of two young daughters and diagnosed bipolar some years ago. After my divorce, I moved in with my mom and dad to “get things together”. Now, while I appreciate all they have done for me since I have been here 3 years, I am tired of being here. No, I cannot support myself and my daughters, at this time, but my mom is the WORLDS’ ENABLER. There is no reason to force myself to do better because she makes things too easy. If I have a bad day or an episode, she deals with the kids and I am in the bed for nearly a week. While married for 7 years, I HAD to take control, no matter the mood or episode. I take my meds relgiously with no problem but there are still quite a few “down-cycles”. I have never been in trouble either. My biggest problem is money and how to make wise investments and always running out far too quickly and being stuck. I can completely understand and the point is, If my mom would absolutely put her foot down and refuse to do most of what she does, I would (and can) handle it. Thanks for all the helpful emails, I seem to be able to relate to all that you have said in each one and waiting for the money to order your courses for myself AND my mom.
I agree with you that you MUST make sure the one you are supporting takes the medications and does not go off on a tangent of listening to others when they tell them they do not need them.
I lived with one that tossed her meds under the bed. She found that she could double and triple up on her lithium for a week prior to blood test. By all means DO NOT allow this person to see the same psychiatrist over the limit suggested by the American Psychiatric Association or you will find yourself in a position that the patient treats the treater with the same lies told to friends and associates.
These people can become mean. I agree with you that the individual should remain in jail then let the courts ORDER treatment.
DeWayne
Dave, so does it mean I am crazy because I open the fridge again to see if I missed a magic sandwich behind a jar of jam? Hahaha *sighs* that sandwich never appears but alas. I am ever hopeful.
Enough kidding. I am right with you about recognizing a pattern and taking notice of how that pattern is working or NOT working for that matter. Most people have their cycles. They really really mess up then get better then mess up a little then a little more then a lot more then it is to the point you want to choke them. And round and round it goes. We as bi-polar supporters have our own cycles as well, Hopeful, doubtful, scared and then fed up. I know first hand how hard it is to let someone you love fall and feel the impact for what they have done. They will blame you for it. It will not be their fault at the time but stay strong and remember LIFE is about learning and growing as a person. You have to let them feel and deal with what they have done or not done that have them in trouble in the first place. Repeat to them “You are the one who did this NOT me. I love you but this is NOT my fault.”
Muscle builders say you have to RIP muscle to grow new muscles to get stronger. I say let them give you all they can and you can stand there arms akimbo and say “Let er RIP” I can take it.
thank you for your comments. after 25 yrs of BP and it’s consequences for everyone, inc myself, i have finally realized that i have a choice about what bhvr i use – and chose to uise-when i am monitoring my moods and thi8nki i know all the answers, and just act on how i feel. it is MY bp, and I have CHOICES about what i do and do not do –and responsibillity for what i do; BP cannot be an excuse or reason for me to do anything that is harmful to me or others.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I now know that I am not an awful mother for letting my daughter clean up her own messes. I have even gone bankrupt in the past supporting my daughter ,her four children ,and two miserable husbands! I can now be free thanks to you. I no longer have bouts of guilt when I say no. Thank you so much David!
Zana
x There musT b sumThing in The way i FeeL, ThaT he don’T wan’T me 2FeeL x The sTare he bares..cuT me x buT i don’T care x u see, so whaT iF i bLeed x i couLd never change jusT whaT i FeeL x my Face wiLL never sh0w whaT is noT reaL x a mounTain never seems 2have The need 2speak x a Look ThaT shares, s0 many seek x The sweeTesT FeeLing i goT From u x The Things i said 2 u were Tru x i couLd never change jusT whaT i FeeL x my Face wiLL never sh0w whaT is noT reaL x i couLd have Lied, i’m suCh a FooL x my eyeS couLd never never never keep their cooL x Sh0wed u n i ToLd u how x u sTruck me, buT i’m F*cked up n0w……….. x *BeauTiFuL anThony kieDis ~ ReD hoT ChiLiS*
Have a wonderful saturday people… and if u ever read these blog comments…u 2 david!! x
David, I am Bipolar 1 and have been all my life, but diagnosed 20 years ago. I agree wth everything you say about BP and what we do. It helps me understand the awful things I did when psychotic (mania or depression) hurt so many people. And, you are NOT crazy just because you talk to yourself! Alot of people do it. It helps to organize thoughts and figure things out…I am 44 yrs old and I have, for the 1st time in my life, feel stable. I do not know how long it will last so I am enjoying it and trying to inc healthy choices in my life to keep this mood! Sometimes it takes a long time for us to understand that what we are doing does not make sense. I do know that Bipolar Disorder magnifies BD emotions 100x what a person without any mental illness feels. It is not fun. I feel that it has ruined my life ~ but I see a positive and fulfilling future. Thank-You for helping caregivers and those of us with BD. Have a great day!
Your Friend,
Virginia
Dave,
I am a 59 yr old man and my wife died in 2000 of medication drug overdose, (She was addicted) Now I have a 17 yr old grandson (Who has bipolar) and his 13 year old brother who is normal and I also have a 16 year old grand daughter (Normal) and I have custody of all 3 of them. The 17 year old just spent a year in a juvenile detention center and now that he is out he is doing the same things all over and I have told him that if he gets into more trouble he is on his own. He is bad enough that I have to lock my bedroom door if I go anywhere and leave him here just so he won’t go into my bedroom and plunder through things, I love Josh and he & his brother has been in & out of my home since they were born. Both parents were drug users when he was born.
This is the only sight that I have found that digs this deep into this Bipolar thing. I don’t want to kick him out of my home but at my age and single, What can I do ?.
Stanley… your grandsons PO officer should be on your cell phone and your home phone. Let them be the heavy and DO NO I say DO NOT cover for him if he starts messing up again. Explain to him it is HIS choices that are leading him down some very bad roads. Tell him you can not allow him to take you and his siblings down that road as well. Encourage him to get a job…any job. Mowing lawns etc.
To be very serious and very tough here Stanley, your other two grandkids still need you. The older one is at that age where he is going to do what he is going to do NO matter what you say or do. If he is a bad influence do not allow him to be alone with the younger ones. Talk to his Probation Officer. Ask for help for guidance for support groups. They have the tools but are NOT used to anyone asking them for it. They will even pay for PSY testing on him if you ask. Good Luck Stan.
Dave, I can’t agree with “leaving the sufferer in jail”. Jail is no place for any person let alone someone whop suffers from a mood disorder like Bipolar ! I know someone this happened to, that the family were at their wit’s end (or lacked th eimagination and compassion) to bail their son out of jail who was then mercilessly beaten and left for dead in jail. Please, everyone, whatever you do DON’T let anyone you love rot in jail!
You also need to think outside the square regarding medications – you are all so sure that medications are the first and last stop for Bipolar sufferes. Well if you’ve ever been on that medication you would soon realise it is no way to live long term.
The coldness and lack of compassion in this blog amazes me and everything I have read so far of your ‘experience’ makes you come out like a control freak who enjoys lording it over his mother. I’m sure this will be deleted as I have been unable to find any comments critical of this outlandish suggestion. I am not picking on the fact that you have absolutely no qualifications whatsoever other than the fact you have evidently done some kind of canned marketing course on how to write and sell courses on the internet. Just that you lack some basic insights on human behaviour that you really should have after supposedly taking care of a bipolar sufferer.
Ivana not-afraid-to-leave her-whole-name Moretti
Had mixed feelings on this one. SOME jails have excellent mental health teams. Others.. not so good. Hopefully, she’ll be able to post a signature bond and get out on her own. My policy from day 1 with my daughters has been “i’m there for you always, except when it comes to jail, especially once you turn 18/21.. do not call me, i will not bail you out. Once the precident is set, its a lil harder to get tough. The word “enabling” kinda makes my blood boil. It’s mostly a matter of finding that gray area between being supportive and not being used.
I went to lunch and museum wiht a friend which meant i was out a total of 3 hours. Came home to my 28 y/o daughter in the same clothes she’s had on for three days now, refusing to shower/bathe/eat/get out of bed. She’s SICK. This is a DIS-EASE. I’m frustrated she’s so totally unable to care for herself. Kind of knew we’d had 2 good days mostly because i was around to cook, feed, keep things moving and that this crash was likely.
So cooking turkey breast (did ya know there’s a chemical in turkey that is a precursor for serotonin ? ). Tis true.
Daughter has peeked out a couple times. Said she’s going to church tomorrow and will be sure we’re both in bed early and up in the morning and ‘doing’ the day.
This really is such a damnably difficult disease. Gonna recommend Al Anon again.. if there’s any substance abuse involved; possibly if not it’s a good group to get support and there’s usually always a meeting nearby. It’s very good at reinforcing separating our loved one from ourselves and remembering always to take care of ourselves first.
The key.. i believe is loving support; BOUNDARIES.. know them; LIMITS… know them too !!!
((hugs))
TO IVANA and EVERYONE
Your post is funny to me. Why? It looks exactly like things my mom has said to me in the past.
Anyone who has been around my blog knows what you are saying is not what I am trying to do:
You wrote:
“The coldness and lack of compassion in this blog amazes me and everything I have read so far of your ‘experience’ makes you come out like a control freak who enjoys lording it over his mother”
This is exactly what I don’t want to do–control my mom. I have far too many other things to do.
Your statement sounds like things my mom OR people I know with bipolar disorder say 5% of the time. I say 5% of the time because the other 95% of the time, they don’t say these things because they know that I mean well and want the best for them.
I must say, your post is a great example of exactly what my mom use to do to get me to do everything for her for about 7 straight years.
People should read your post over and over carefully and learn from it.
Actually I think I might do a free podcast to go over the lesson to be learned from your post and how it relates to people supporting someone with bipolar disorder.
Finally, in reference to this,
“you have absolutely no qualifications”
I am happy to say I am NOT a doctor, lawyer, insurance person, etc. etc. For anyone who is reading this, it’s important to know I am NOT offering medical advice or legal advice. There are plenty of people who can do that. It’s not me and I am happy to admit that. BUT I sure do seem to know this illness well and how to help someone because I am not a “professioal” with “professional qualifications.”
Dave
Thank you for your e-mail. I finally
stopped enabling when it came to
a matter of physical violence. By that point I had lost everything I had worked years for and my dreams of the future along with an 8-year relationship that I thought would be forever. It was and still is the saddest point in my life. I have no idea of what has become of him since and can’t bring myself to even find out because I don’t want to bring more pain into my life since I’ve come so far. Yet, the saddest part to me is the fact that there is not a doubt in my mind that he still truly believes that I “abandoned” him.
Dear Dave,
You are correct again, that is the definition of insanity. As I tell my fiance’ that all of the time that he expects me to go through his repeated cycles that are insane. I cannot live that way. I love him dearly, but cannot do the cyclic thing anymore. Beside keeping in-touch with you via these writings, I have searched for and found some really great books on socio and psychopath illnesses and whenever he does exactly what’s written, I pull the book that’s appropriate for what exactly he’s done, and I read to him aloud that verbage.
I also do this with your letters; which lets him know one thing, “that the manipulative gig is up!” I now know what he’s doing. Today, after the “not comming home and giving all of our rent and food money away” drama, while he was asking questions regarding his behavior and the repeated lying and flat out telling me that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks and isn’t concerned with anyone’s feeling when he does them, no concience…. I mean he nicely and calmly questioned why he can’t make a connection between himself and any family attachment and wanting any, and that he just doesn’t understand why he doesn’t feel the need to even say hello to his siblings or parents, and doesn’t care if what he does hurts anyone,..and has used me and his family in the years past…. I pulled a book out and nicely handed it to him and he was willing to discuss it.
This is the first time he has been willing to effectively communicate with me about what he’s been doing. He was not vulgar or defensive about it. He was not blame-shifting. This tells me that the patience that I have had has not gone to waste but by the same token, I had to learn what to do with my trauma that he had caused with his bad actions. And as I read books on what to do with my hurt, I came across lots of information for him and myself.
I guess that with his mention of and questioning of the non-love for himself, and his bad behavior, that maybe, just maybe, he might be willing to try to stop going round and round. And he might be willing to get professional help on a constant basis. Continued therapy, and of course I would totally support him in that. I want to see him have a good life.
It also seems to me that he has finally gotten off of his roller coaster insanity cycle for just a moment to take a look at sanity. P.S. I’ve been at work all day and have left him home to think and read. But, who knows what he’ll be like when I get home? Who knows what personality he will have? The eight-year old personality that calls me names and shuts out the lights (literally) on me when I get home from work and try to eat and unwind, may come out of him,…or the silent treatment personality that thinks and then tells me that “he is a genius and therefore is too good to have to waste his breath on anyone” might come out, or the personality that doesn’t care about anything and says that “I don’t care if I’m homeless because, I live better and write better chess book material while homeless and starving” might come out of him.
Most often, I get the cuddle-type of personality whereby he will ask for a hug, be warm and affectionate for about five to ten minutes and then it goes into a horrible statement to me while I’m hugging him. From there it goes to usually two of the others within the next hour or so. So, I don’t believe that I’m just dealing with bipolar. Although, I’m not an expert. My mother on the other hand has a minor in psych. and she says that he’s very sick and needs alot of help psychologically, yet she and my family, however tired they are of the situation, are still tolerant somewhat. I believe that getting a person help and also getting them to want the help takes alot of time. I once read that whatever damages someone psychologically, actually takes twice the amount of time, if at all to cure. And that’s if it’s recognized. I don’t believe that any victim is truly enabling. TOO OFTEN THE VICTIM GETS BLAMED and is called an “enabler” it happens that it takes time for the VICTIM TO LEARN HOW TO COPE with the trauma and what to do with the trauma that he/she is suffering on a daily basis, I had to learn how to care for myself in my way and not listen to the blame shift tendencies of other people. I had to come past that point in-throughout eighteen months or more, do alot of reading, apply my former investigative training, apply my former Army training for mind strength, yet still work, study, excersize, cook for him and myself (which I love to do cause I love to cook and he loves to eat) and somewhere while trying to realize that I’ve been a victim of probably what mostly is has been done NOT ON PURPOSE, by him yet some may have been, in order to facilitate other bad behavior,….I had to get past taking everything so personal, in order to objectively stand back and see what to do with what… the pain, the trying to help him, the taking care of myself etc. and then still… the need to keep the peace as much as possible, keep up the cooking and family-like atmosphere so that he could turn to Family and trust that Family is all he has. He also has not any religious faith and is quite confused, and angry at something that he just won’t tell…,Something or someone took his faith away and so he seems soul-less. How can I ask him to have faith if I show him an example of no faith? I have to stand and show him my faith, no matter through the tough love, tough times, good times, bad times, that I never stop praying and family never ceases to be family. I don’t know what has happened to him, but some how It is my guess that someone or something has hurt him so much that his only escape was to develope these other beings in himself to escape to. He literally tells me that he does everything to escape! I ask, “escape what?” A nice job? a good woman? a nice place to live?
The only other thing that I know is that the man that I fell in love with, who was somewhat mentally more healthy back then, or maybe was just trying hard to hide the illness because he told me that no woman has ever stayed with him, … is still the same man, the former soldier like myself, my best friend, the person who watched over me for safety reasons when I first met him, when I had no car and had to take the buses home late at night from work when we met at, and used to work at the same job,…one day lay curled up in a ball crying, telling me to help him stop drinking. I promised my best friend that no matter what, that I would stay to help him, no matter what I had to do. It’s been about two years. It takes time and patience to figure it all out. Some people figure faster than others, that’s all. Victims are not mentally ill, in my belief. They are just unsuspecting people that need time to figure out everything. Once that happens, however long it takes healing can begin, and so can moving on.
I am just starting my journey with the disorder, or should I say have a child with different symptoms than my mother. I feel like people do not listen to me about his anger management issues. The teachers keep wanting to make excuses thinking that he is an attention getter and that he does this so he can get out of doing the work. They really don’t stop to think that there just may be a problem wiht the chemical make up of his brain. I don’t really think that where I live, there is a whole lot of knowledge for children with Bi-polar disorder, but I hope that soon they will realize children have more than just ADD, and ADHD. MY SON IS 8 YEARS OLD.