Hi,
What’s going on?
I hope you are doing well today and have a great day.
I wanted to bring up something. I call it the bipolar supporter loser attitude.
A couple months back I met someone who was a bipolar supporter. His wife was TOTALLY out of control. She was “kind of” in treatment. She was “kind of” taking medication.
As a result, she had destroyed his finances, family life, relationship with friends, etc.
Her bipolar disorder was running circles around him. It was really sad.
I asked him why he allowed this, and he said to me, “It’s not worth the fight?”
I said, “Huh?”
And he said, “Yea, it’s not worth the fight.”
I said to him, “Do you want me to give it to you straight or sugar coat it?”
He said, “Give it to me straight.”
So I said, “That is a ‘total loser attitude.'”
I said to him, “How in the world could it NOT be worth the fight? How could getting your wife stable so you have some money, so she doesn’t look like a fool most of the time, so you have a good family life, so you can have a normal life and she can be all she can be, not be worth the fight?”
I said, “Of course it is.”
I said, “Let me ask you a question:
“If you were out of your mind 90% of the time saying and doing stupid, dumb, destruction and crazy things, wouldn’t you want someone to go to the end of the earth to help you not do these things? Or would you be okay with being like this?”
He said “Um…well I would want someone to help.”
I said “Yea, of course.”
I said, then, “Why do you have a loser attitude like this?”
He said, “Dave it’s not that easy, it’s hard.”
I said, “Oh that’s right I forgot, I didn’t have to work hard for my mom for like a year.”
He said, “Well, I know but well I am tired.”
I told him I can understand that. I asked him what is holding him back. He said “We tried it all.”
I said “You tried it all — you tried every possible combination of things?”
He said “Yes.”
I said “Wow! You tried 1,000,000 things, how old are you? You aren’t 500,000 years old, are you?”
I said to him, “You know that if there are 20 things you could do the total number of possible things to try would be 20 times, 19 times, 18 times, 17 times, 16 times…which is way more than 1 million!”
He said “Well we didn’t try everything.”
NOTE-
He was kind of getting frustrated with me because I wouldn’t go along with him.
Then I said, “You need a new plan and a better strategy.”
He said “Yes.”
So we got to talking and I outlined some things that he can do immediately. Most importantly I gave him the right mindset. The “You versus bipolar disorder you’re going to win” mindset.
In my courses/systems below:
SUPPORTING AN ADULT WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
I talk about how if you are a bipolar supporter you can’t just sit around and say “it’s not worth the fight.”
With bipolar disorder, it progressively gets worse and worse and worse when there is NO treatment. It doesn’t fix itself magically.
It’s worth the fight.
My dad use to think like that. He used to always tell me not to argue with my mom and just to go along. We did that for YEARS. Actually decades and it didn’t work at all.
When I took over in 2004, I said there’s going to be a new way of life. A new strategy. It will be worth the fight and I will not allow my mom to be unstable.
As a result, my mom became stable. There’s no question it was really, really hard work.
But it was worth the fight.
Do you think it’s worth the fight for yourself or someone with bipolar disorder to get them stable?
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David Oliver is the author of the shocking guide “Bipolar Disorder—The REAL Silent Killer.” Click Here to get FREE Information sent via email on how and why bipolar disorder kills.
Post responses below
Dear Dave,
While I agree that this more than suggests a loser attitude or mentality, I, on the other hand, can truly understand this person. For years now I have lived with my husband’s bi-polar disorder. It is the equivalent to having an out of control teenager in your home 24/7. Years of battling this illness, even with psychiatric help and meds, has left me depleted as well. Finances are hopeless. We are steeped in debt…………so much debt that I cannot afford the $99 for your course…………unless you have a sale. My spouse constantly thinks he has the “solution” to any problem, and rushes into changing it, without my consent, and without my advice. He seldom if ever takes my advice. Things only get worse. I cannot change him………….he’s taking his meds, and he refuses to see another doctor. He does go for therapy, and it helps to a small degree……………but I, on the other hand get no help………even from my therapist. Everything is centered around them and their illness. It is always “about them”. What about us? Who is there for us? It’s hell living with him like this. So, in short, understand the feeling of “let’s forget it”. It begins to look hopeless for you too. Susanne
Yes Dave it is totally worth the fight to get someone you love stable. I have spent almost 20 years doing it, 11 of those married. But I am not sure whether it is worth the fight within a relationship – were there are children involved, and one loses oneself in order to maintain them. Sometimes the supporter needs to focus on themselves and their other dependents, and not always and only the bipolar spouse. I will always try to keep my spouse stable and support him, but no longer at the cost to myself and my childrens harmony and stability. The issue always comes in as to how much the bipolar person is also putting energy into keeping themselves stable, and if equal amounts are not put in then it cannot become the supporters responsibility.
yes i defo think its worth the fight to help ur loved one to get stable
my niece is in her late 40 nad is comming to stay with me as she has left her husband and the children are no longer speaking to her
Her parents are eldely and her Father has alzimers so her mum has a great deal to cope with they have both supported her in every way
and I guess that I feel it is time for another family member to step up
I hope that I will be able to help and not end up on your loser list
Yes, it is worth the fight, and I have just really begun to understand bipolar, my son has been diagnosed with it. I’m feeling the pain because I’m father. The fight has just begun, I will not stop untill my son is stable.
Hey David,
Great email –
My husband and I are caring for a 31 year old friend who when we invited her to stay with us (because she was going to be homeless) we did not know she was bipolar (she had been diagnosed but did not accept it) and did not know what bi polar was …after watching her self destruct – we finally got her into treatment – this weekend she has gone to CA for a sisters wedding.
I understand the being exhausted part – it has been a very difficult 6 months but we keep telling ourselves it is a treatable illness. Her family has given up and abandoned her and we are hoping that this weekend she sees being bi-polar is not the world ending.. (her sister and dad are bi-polar also)
so to the exhaused and frustrated people – keep telling them .. it is worth the fight !
Thanks for your advice and emails.
I totally agree with Susanne and NMC. I finally seperated from my husband after 27 years of marriage. This illness is devastating to families. Much healing has been achieved for my children and myself in the last year and a half since he left. We still suffer the mood swings, just not directly. I wish him well, and would do anything to help him still, just not at the cost of my/my childrens well being. Peace in a home is priceless. Good luck to all the sufferers and supporters. My prayers are with you.
I need to voice my opinion again as I am almost insulted by the word ‘loser’ being used. Anyone who is supporting a bipolar for any amount of time through an episode is not a loser. A loser would be one who runs at the first sight of trouble. The different relationships also need to be addressed before one can comment to the extent of being a ‘loser’ – a parent would and should most likely never give up – that is the nature of parental love and protection; but a spousal relationship is fraught with so many other issues – finances, children etc. Does that mean that after many years of trying to hold things together (and being successful to an extent) but finally chosing a stable life for ones children and oneself mean that we are now losers?
It’s difficult to say that one hasn’t given their best to their loved ones. I divorced my husband because he kept refusing to get help. I love him and I also know him to the extent that you must take him to the edge and say look down, before he will hook up to his harness. I continue to love him from a distance. He hates my guts for leaving him. I was atongonizing his disorder by just being present. So I chose to leave him to himself and to God. He has his moment of tantrums and depression but he’s getting counselling now that the court has ordered it. He came off his medication months ago and this is not the best thing for me. I think I have done all I can. I will not say that a loser attitude is the best way to describe a supporter who has reached the end of the support line when really, even in the sane moments, the bp spouse refuses the available help.
I have only shared my plight (dealing with a bipolar daughter-in-law) with 2 people I go to church with. I trust them to not gossip. My D-I-L acknowledges her bipolar /depression state, but does not try to “help herself”. Like Suzanne above, our finances are horrible, because her and my son’s medical insurance had very little mental health coverage and she has reached the lifetime maximum. So anything now is out-of-pocket. Now, any mental related hospitalization and psychiatric doctors are out of pocket. He has had to keep the money and only give her what she may need. If he gives her $20 she will spend it all. Grocery shopping includes snack foods, and she buys way more of items than we need. I forgot to mention that I live with them to help with money and child care. If he gives her $50 she will spend it all – usually on their 17 year old son who she almost idolizes. There is an 8 year old precious little girl who bears the brunt of her mother’s crying (“I can’t do anything right” – “I’m stupid”) tantrums and less than patient behavior while dealing with the 8 yr old. They lost a male child who would have been 12 now. So I think there may be some resentment with the little girl. My son (her husband) is very good to her, tries to understand, and is very patient. He or I do all the cooking and cleaning, dishes, and picking up. She only does her own laundry and will leave things in the washer or dryer for days. She has worked some but cannot handle the pressures of a daily job for very long at a time. One of the biggest issues is with her medicine. Since she no longer sees a psychiatrist, her family doctor is still prescribing her drugs. In her mixed up mind, she won’t call in her refills because she thinks we don’t have the money. Then she goes 2 weeks without her meds. Then, when she starts taking them again, the adjustment period is terrible and she is worse than ever. She sleeps for days, is lethargic when “awake”, cannot function, and has even damaged the car when she tried to drive. Her husband is totally beside himself, because he has to take her keys away from her. When she was seeing a psychologist, she would only tell him what she wanted him to know – that her husband and I were the problem. It’s a sad sad story. I just have to shut up now. Thanks for listening.
I don’t have a supporter in my house. My bipolar has destroyed my marriage. I have 2 daughters still at home (20 & 18). They all refuse to do anything to help or educate themselves. Dave, I did get your course and none of them has even looked at for over a year.
I’m the one that went to the dr. last year & was put in the hospital for about 4-5 days. I asked them about all of us going together to see my therapist & that has not happened. I do take my medication religiously. I’m the one that has to be aware if my medication is not at the right dose, what my triggers are, and etc.
My 20 yr old tells me that I am shoving it down her throat to get involved. She also stated that she doesn’t have the time to read about bipolar. What’s ironic, she is goint to college to become a nurse. I asked her, what are you going to do when you come in contact with someone with BP? You will eventually learn about BP in your profession. Are you going to take the same attitude with them that you have with me?
My youngest child doesn’t have much to do with me. She reads 24/7 and has told me that she doesn’t want to talk to me because of what might happen.
My daughters tell me how much they were hurt because of the bipolar. I fully understand this because I’m also aware of how much I hurt them & others. There is a healing process & if you don’t start that process, it is never going to get better.
I will be getting a divorce. My husband is one of my triggers. I don’t want to live with someone that has no desire to help.
If I try to talk to them about something, their attitude is “her she goes again”. They assume that something is going to happen. I’m to the point that I can’t take this kind of pressure. I don’t know what else to do to get my family to help me. I no longer give them anything to read. This is their choice & there is nothing I can do to change it.
This is also another reason that I want to be on my own. I don’t have the pressure of their attitude and vice versa. I think we will all be happier.
Also, my 20 yr old was suppose to be getting married in Dec 2009. A few weeks ago I was told it is now Dec 2008. One of her reasons is that she wants to get away from what is going on at home. Is everything perfect at home? NO! None of them can say that I don’t take my medication, go to therapy @ whatever else I need to do. I can understand this attitude before I got on medication & got help. I can remember what I was like before medication & don’t want to go there again.
My heart does go out to everyone with their different problems in dealing with BP.
Dear Dave, I met a man autumn last year, dated some in the fall, we both had family health issues in the late fall, his an episode and three in my family having major surgeries so we e-mailed, but in late january connected through our common interests, spiritual, dance, music, sports. Long story short he was stable then, we got engaged in March this year and planned to marry in the fall. He told me all about his bipolar up front at the very beginning and I was never afraid. I have great faith in God and began studying all I could to learn about it. He had two sets of friends who had supported him in the past, I felt with enough education on my own I could be his supporter in marriage. We are 65 & 66. He retired in 1999, divorced in 2000 and met me in 2007. I learned he’d been on medications only 7 years. He had one ect treatment in Dec. and came out of the hosp. was on meds, regular pdoc appointments. Being new to BP when he started going into the depression in May, I didn’t know he couldn’t talk to me. Being single since 2000, his method of coping was to isolate with two supporters calling him, evidenty one daily. He would never answer calls except from his two sons and one man supporter and then me when I got in the picture. I got on the fast track and read thousands of blogs, several good books and was learning all I could. I thought I could help him if we could at least get him in an environment where he wouldn’t be isolated and would be able to become stable. He lived alone. In the past after his depression would pass he’d come back to church, the dances and other groups he participated in. He, in earlier years had done alc/drugs probably everything BP sufferers do. He turned his life around was able to retire from the same job in 99 on disability. He was more manic then evidently. I realized it was pointless to try to communicate anything of a serious nature till he came out of the depression. I wasn’t family, had no rights and he was taking his meds and going to bed on time, seeing his pdoc biweekly and doing the things I’d read he should be doing. The problem here is I was new to support and this illness was not new to him. long story short, I really thought he was coming out of this he’d gotten a wee bit stronger and went to several AA meetings. He’d been sober 25 years thru AA & CODA was always working on himself. I wouldn’t have considered marriage had he not been. I just thought together we could get him more stable. He let me come and “hang out” a couple or three days a week in his home so I could see what was going on and keep him from being alone. I didn’t take over anything, had I been his wife, I would have done many things, gone to his doctors etc. I never will know if any of this would have worked. He took his life last Tuesday. He was my soulmate and the one I knew I could grow old with. I am at a loss now to whether I missed some clue or something. I was in contact with him every morning, intermittently through the day by phone or e-mail and always called before he went to bed. He seemed to have it together, the doctor had adjusted his meds three times during the period from May to early July, was sleeping better and on 7/7 he actually started filling out the mood chart I printed out for him online. I don’t know what happened. He told me I deserved a better life than to be caught up in his insanity. Your question today is why fight? EVERYONE deserves to live, they don’t ask for this disorder, they, from what I read, do crazy things and drive people nuts trying to care for them. It is critical to see that they have care, if you can’t do it, get someone else to step in. Even with my diligence and efforts, it was too late. My life and his adult children (out of state) are forever changed because something happened and he did the unthinkable. I’ll never know this side of heaven I don’t guess and my heart is crushed. We loved each other and had no little ones or jobs to worry about, I thought we could make it. He got into overload with the stress of putting his home on the market for sale so we could live in my home more conveniently to all our activities. I wish, I pray I could have some answers but now it’s over and I’m left like hanging by my fingernails off a cliff in the greatest sorrow anyone could ever imagine. If you love someone, move mountains to help them. I thought I was doing everything right, everyone says I was, that I couldn’t have changed it, that if they’re going to do it they will eventually find a way and an opportunity. He wanted to protect me, be the strong man, he hated being in the depression and not having a life. Did he do this because he was so weary, to protect me from obviously what gets worse with age??????? Get your loved one help, get out of the way if you’re not committed. Get educated and learn to manage your emotions and understand theirs. Watch for it in your children or siblings. Get them help early, to my knowledge he willed himself to work an maintain the same job till he took early retirement on disability. I don’t know if the damage was so far gone by the time he got help….I don’t know, I don’t know. God bless all of you who have been in this for years, I was willing to go to the end, I just didn’t think the end would have come so quickly. I could never find much in my short time to research about older sufferers. We were not old, we danced every opportunity we could, in our minds we were young. Even so I wouldn’t trade today’s pain for the 7 months we were really together. It was worth it. He knew I loved him and I knew he loved me. I now am in the worst pain imaginable, so many questions, no answers. Yes, Help your friend or loved one. They deserve it, they can’t will it away.
We just found out about five months ago that my 13 year old daughter is bipolar. I would never consider her to be a “loser” we have had a rough five months. They have not been able to find the right meds for her for she has other problems also. It can be very hard on other family members but we have all pulled together and are helping my daughter. We will get her stable so she can live a normal life. I just started reading your articles and I get a lot of information. Thank You so much for your help.
I am a moher of a 30 year old son that lives in my home. He was diagnosed at the age of 18. He has tried living on his own several times with no avail. He has been fired, put in jail, wasted money and ran aroun the wrong crowd. the final straw was that he was shhot on New Years Eve in 2006. He was in the wrong place doing nothing wrong but with the wrong person. that was the end I finally had him move to my hometown and it has been good so forth , no outburst .hospitalization in 2 years. He takes his meds, and get rest. He is not able to work because some days he can not get up because he is just in a slump. I plan to open a business in the near future and he will be working for me. i will then encourage him to try living on his own again. I preay it works. I will always be there for him and will never stop trying to help him through this. One thing you can not do is give up on someone you love
Hi Dave,
Thank you so much for your daily articles.
The truth of the matter is if we don’t work to make it better it will just come back to us again and again.
I have made tremdous progress with my adult daughter since she was diagnosed 3 years ago. However, I have always felt it hurts her more than me when we accept incorrect behavior. If I would have given up
she would not be where she is today.
I just ordered your manual and I’m hopeful it has more of the answers I’m looking for.
Dave, if you read this I would like to discuss the admin assist position you
will be posting. I have a virtual home office and know a lot about bipolar disorder from personal experience. I would like to be a part of helping people learn how to work with this disorder.
i think this was a very good topic and nobody is ever worth giving up on we all deserve the love and help .i have bi-polar disorder and i recently went on a relapse and my whole family and so called loved ones has let me go and it really hard to deal with because i know what is happening with me ,but they dont nor except that the fiorder is there . so here iam dealing with that on my own and with people that i have brought into my life sense this epsiode has begun.so iam here pretty much alone and dealing
Good morning David and good day to all who will read this message board.
Since I have just been introduced to this illness as early as July 16th of a loved one, all I would like to say is God Bless each and every one of you who has had to live through this illness in anyway. I personally do not like the word loser,,, when someone does not want to face a situation it’s usually out of fear of the UNKNOWN. I do not want to compare my situation with anyone as we are all different. I am grateful to have good support and we are doing ok so far. As life in general can have many road blocks I can only place my trust and faith in God’s hands. He has brought us to it He will bring us out of it.
HI ,
I am new to the team of supporters of Bipolar. My mother and younger brother suffer from the disorder. I have ran all my life from them, as the insults, raging, irresponsibility, harassments, stealing and so fourth, literally drove me to spiritual and mental sickness. Finally, all that was left was the two of them to try and support each other. After years of them robbing each other, insulting each other, and so on, I decided to remove my mother (for my own sanity) and bring her into my home. When she arrived, she was shaking all over, only had a carry-on, no money, and was hungry. All I could do was cry. How could the very woman whom gave me life, raised me and put band-aids on my cut…be so sick? And, most…what was wrong with me, that I left her to end up in this way? The guilt has been unbearable. I do not like to think of myself as a loser, but more as a guardian (at that time) of my own sanity, my own mental health… And, I feel I am in a better place now to care for her. She is on medicine and stabilizing daily, I thank God Almighty for this! As for my brother…well…I can’t take them both on at the same time. So maybe, I am, by your word “A partial loser” and in the intern I will continue to pray for him and speak softly and firmly about getting help for the disorder, so that he can begin to live life in peace for once. Thank you for your support and the great comments, it really does help to know that I am not alone and that others are striving to be the “Hero’s” in all these special peoples lives!
Hi,
I have been reading your emails on this devastating illness, and believe my husbannd suffers from it, he has now abandoned the family after 29 years of marriage leaving us destitute, in 2006 he got involved with a woman and within a year of their relationship he pregnated her and now has a child of 2 and 3/4 months.
I have tried to help him all through our married life as there was chaos in our lives, he is promisicious, spender, do not think of anyone but himself, and does not know the meaning of the word LOVE. He is all what I have read about Bipolar.
He does not want a separation or divorce nor is he giving me any money, the banks are caling in loans that he has with them but his way of dealing with this is by stalling, I must also say he has a lot of charm and is clever in his own devious ways, he swindled me and the kids by moving the family assets to South Africa, this is where he met this woman in Oct 06. Is this Bipolar or a psychopath I am dealing with.
Dave,
I can totally relate to this guy. Is it a loser attitude or facing the reality that if you take on the commitment it is for the rest of your life? Maybe he does not love her enough to stay with it and he would become bitter and angry as the years go by? When do you know when its time to quit? Or is it even possible to walk away? I know many people with this disorder commit suicide. My husband has tried several times before and as miserable I may be at times I NEVER feel that BAD. People with this disorder have a difficult life and most of us that live with someone are not professionally trained but have to learn on their own how to deal with it. Not everyone can or is willing to support someone even if they are a “loved one.”
If I had known what my life would be, I would NOT have married my husband. Hindsight is always perfect, isn’t it? I am 67 years old. I would like to have some security, stability, peace and some kind of life of my own without always being concerned about moods. anger, spending sprees, lost jobs and being blamed for everything. Add to this the taking of his own his life a real threat.
Is this a selfish attitude? Or is 14 years of commitment , caring ,being broke and clinically depressed worth it? I feel as if I have another persons life in my hands and I know he is not able to take care of himself. No one else, not even his own family is willing to live with his behavior. So I have to go on, what other choice is there?
He has a four-to-five year cycle. I HATE THIS DISEASE! And so does he. It is so subtle and has stolen so much of our life together. He is 62 years old and plans to work until he drops dead on the job. I want us to have time to have some FUN. But it takes us four to five years to recover from his episodes and then it starts all over again. Talk about feeling you’re under a curse!
Thank you for the work you are doing and the encouragement it gives. And giving me a place I can share my feelings. I have no one else.
I’m struggling here between two different concepts. The one is expect things to go well. Have a positive attitude and if you expect good things to happen they will. It’s worth the fight, keep trying until you get results. Roll up your sleeves, treat it like a project and fix it. The other is to accept things the way they are and be happy and content anyway. Expectations result in disappointment and undue stress. Get over your need to fix it. Don’t insist on things being other than the way they are. I’m asking myself is life really ok the way it is right now? Don’t get me wrong there’s a lot of things I love about my life right now but there are some things that I feel like have got to change before it destroys too much of me and my family. I often hear people say to just accept their spouses the way they are, love them unconditionally and don’t try to change them. Where do you draw the line between reasonable and unreasonable expectations? Is expecting your spouse to hold down a job reasonable? What about fidelity, gambling, pornography, having temper tantrums? What about smaller things like eating dinner at the table with the family, supporting you in enforcing rules and consequences with the children, keeping the lawn mowed, feeding the kids when you’re puking your guts out? How many bipolar supporters feel taken advantage of? When can you say you’re being a perfectionist and unreasonable and when can you say you’ve tolerated enough abuse? What’s abuse? What’s neglect? What’s carelessness? What’s just incapacity? When do you turn you’re head and say, oh well, I’m expecting too much and when do you need to say I expect better?
It seems to me the answer has to do with how much the injury is causing you and your loved one. What’s reasonable at the time may be just one notch higher than where the person is at now. My problem now is I feel like my spouse would rather say, “I’m just plain lazy, that’s the way I am, get used to it, I’m not planning on changing, feel sorry for me, you expect way too much out of me.” So do I look for outside help because I’m not coping now and I’m plain exhausted or do I say, “It’s time to step up and fix this or it isn’t going to work out?”
(I am so sorry for your loss Carlann, I feel your pain)
I have to agree that whether you are inflicted with Bi-po, the supporter, or both it is very definitely worth the fight to have some resemblance of normalcy in your life. I am both as is my daughter. My husband has Bi-po but he doesn’t know what to do and doesn’t really recognize that it is a mental illness and he has something more than a “bad temper”. So we are a household of 3 bi-po and 2 supporters. It works most of the time and well worth the fight.
My 39 year old son has been diagnosed as bipolar. he’s had issues with authority for years, was on drugs and alcohol (still drinking) had a couple of jail issues with the drugs, but was doing better with a good job until he met a truly psycho girl who threatens him with calling the cops – he got in a fight over her, ended up in jail and on probation, and we just found out he’s seeing her again. we’ve been supporting him for a year – including out of pocket psychiatrist and meds – and don’t know what to do. he just got qualified for disability which will help but not even come close to his monthly bills. he is still on probation and has to go to an group meeting twice a week for alcohol and has to pay for both. with no job and no income, he’ll end up back in jail if he doesn’t pay, and they won’t treat him for the bp…. any suggestions? I’m so angry and hurt he lied to us about the girl – he was never in serious trouble before her and the bp was pretty well under control. we thought we had a chance to help him make a change but don’t think he wants to, that he’s just looking for a free ride. we’re taking the money out of our pockets to suppport him – we live in another state so can’t check on him. Any help anyone?
I think that I, too, agree with Suzanne. There comes a time after years of struggle that one must protect their own sanity. I allowed myself to be consumed by my son’s problems and have spent $10’s of thousands of dollars on treatment, hospitals, attornies, bail and fines from jail, totaled vehicles, therapy, his medications and supporting and helping to raise his son of 9 years old….the result of his drug induced euphoric days. And so much more…..I love him so much but my husband and I are in our 60’s and 70’s and now have nothing left to take care of ourselves in our aging years. My son is still disrespectful, beligerent, name calling and will not take his meds now. He is 30 and now believes he was misdiagnosed. No matter how mundane something I say is, he gets irritated and volatile. Yes, I am his trigger and perhaps I should have let go years ago. So, we are letting go now to try to have some kind of life for ourselves. It is amazing that my marraige has been able to withstand it all. We will continue to help our grandson and his mom but outside the scope of my son. I think anyone who has had to live with this disease in any way is a hero. My prayers will be forever!
Yes it is a losers point of view, from your eyes. I am tired of having a 42 year old that can not stick too her medications, her Doctors advice, wont stop drinking, sticks me with her kids all of the time because she had to go shopping and drinks with a friend who is down, wont or cant hold a job.
How can I help some one that wont accept it? Or even try?
Call me a loser, I sure felt like a winner when I walked out the door this morning
My heart goes out to Carlann; I know that this must make you feel helpless. But, be strong there are some things we just can’t control; it’s just out of our hands.
Sometimes the biggest thing we fear is having someone who loves us and can help us. That’s because we feel that we put our burdens, conditions, or worries on them and that they will eventually give up on us, or that we will ruin their life. It is a very noble thing to do when you are able to help someone with bipolar or any other medical/mental condition. But, it is not your fault if you can not control it in its entirety. Taking Med, going to therapy or even having a supporter is not a cure. People with bipolar want love, want to control all the messed up things they do, the mood swings, the high’s and lows, the alcohol & drug if that’s involved, and everything else that happens with this illness that is very challenging to control.
It’s like having cancer, you can slow down the progression and it may even go into remission but if you don’t treat it, it can over take you and there is nothing you can do about it.
I don’t think that if a person has been a supporter and decides to give up that they are a” losers” because sometimes we have to help ourselves. We have to get a break from the stresses of life before we develop medical conditions and self doubt. Sometimes the people we are the closes to we hurt the most but yet, we expect so much from them. A supporter is only human. They should not feel any weight when they are doing their part or even if they can’t because this is a very complicated illness and even the professionals that are equipped to handle such conditions gets exhausted. It is such a perplexed condition you really think a person can control some of the things they do. Sometimes they can, sometimes they can’t and that is why it’s so disturbing.
I personally would not give up, but I would not give in to certain behaviors or attitudes that some people accept because a person has bipolar. We have to accept the things we can not change, and change the things we can and ask for the wisdom to know the difference. Resistance and denial can be incurable.
We all need devotion. So, be patient with others as God has been with you.
Humility, Humility, Humility….
Yep, easy to call someone a loser, and that in my opinion is inappropriate, to say the least.
I join the ranks of after several decades finally figuring out that my soul, my spirit and that of my child were being robbed, that we were going down with the ship, but we didn’t buy the ticket on the Titanic, if you get my drift – no pun intended! But, hope it made you chuckle through the pain.
So, here’s what I’m doing – recuperating. And, I was suppose to be able to deal with other peoples’ illnesses trained in Psychology and having some 20 years as a health care professional.
Quite by accident…well, nothing really is an accident, as we pull things to us…I have found something quite beneficial for the supporters who have left, who are recuperating, and who are now dealing with PTS – YES, living with a bipolar person long enough will cause post traumatic stress disorder – among other illnesses. I will be giving out for free the DVD’s (minus shipping) to anyone who is interested. It’s a quick and easy DIY approach. If this post gets through the moderator’s approval, I will be posting the new website on where to get this in the next couple of days.
For everyone recuperating – you are the winners! For everyone – there are no losers!
Aloha form paradise… except I can’t enjoy it fully becaus eIO am suffering from my boyfriend’s bp. I say I am suffering because his condition, (so far undiagnosed and totally denied) has caused me to become depressed and anxious often, and thouhg I am usually an optimistic person, I ca
I support a woman with bipolar, she say’s mean things, treats me rotten some times, she also drinks, alot. This I have alot of trouble with. She drinks with her friend around their children. She thinks it’s okay… I know she can’t control herself, and yet-her freind enables her, get’s her to drink with her. they abuse alcohol, she say’s she can control it, I know better. I tell her not to drink so much, and she accuses me of controllling her. I am at a loss. What to do?
oops… I can easily become anxious about our future ( I am having his baby in September adn unsure of our plans afterward), and when I ask him about this or express my concern, it trriggers him to become very agitated and easily enraged, which fuels my anxiety because he will say things out of frustration like I am not in the p[lan, etc… So basically we are fueling each other’s suffering… his rage begets my anxiety and depression begets his frustratyion and anger, etc…
Is it worth the fight? Overall, probably, if one can attain that prize of stability, but I certainly try to pick my battles.
When a person will not accept help, when do we stop trying and just save ourselves?
One more thing… are there really any winners in this? Whethyer you stick it out and suffer, whether you leave to preserve your sanity and safety, whether the bp you are supporting is stable for a little while or a long while… even if we get the holy grail of mental health after years of strugle, are therte really any winers? Aren’t we all losing something here???
geez. forgive all my typos. i type fast and make careless mistakes
when i fell strongly about the sibject. 🙂
woo-where’s the moderater when you need one? Some “f” word censoring?
I must make a comment about not giving up on a loved one or spouse with BP. My husband has all the symptoms of BP 1 and has steadily gotten worse over the years. He refuses to admit he has any problems, etc. It has taken me many years to finally realize that his behavior is not because of me or anything that I have done. I have tried for years to be supportive of his ups and downs. Made excuses for his bad behavior. Tried to fix all of the mistakes that he said I had committed, etc. Approximately 3 years ago I was very close to leaving my husband, I had enough of the daily nightmare of living with and loving someone that just could not control themselves. The rages, fighting, name calling, constant tension was killing me. So anyway, I was surfing the web one day — just looking for any info about what could be wrong with him. The daily turmoil was getting to be too much, and I was seriously thinking of leaving him — when I came upon some info on the web posted by none other than David Oliver. As I read the info, I am not even sure now what it was exactly, but the general theme of the article was about helping and supporting the loved one w/BP — about how important it is for the BP person to have that loving support, etc. After reading that I remember feeling so selfish and petty for even considering leaving him when he obviously needs help. So I have stayed and continued to deal with him and his problems. Right now the biggest hurdle is trying to convince him that he needs to seek help!
At times I catch myself telling my family and friends the same because it seems like the more I try to understand, the more he shuts down. My 32 year old boyfriend is bi-polar. We’ve been together for five years only for me to find out about his condition in our third year. We had just moved out on our own and everything was going fine. I notice more of a pushing away and need to be alone thing from him. I took notice of alot of the medications he was taking that he had told me the doctor’s had him on for his back and legs do to a car accident when he was younger. He became the world’s biggest liar. His explanation for not telling me was everyone else that he told became afraid of him and would stop dealing with him. I knew he had two kids of his own and couldn’t see them but once I begin to put more together and see more of the mood swings from him I knew from my heart that something was wrong with him. When he’s on a normal day, he’s the sweetest person in the world. Then on the days Charlie(his other personality) is around he’s more of a grouch and stay shut up in a room by hisself. It’s gotten to the point because I can’t stand to see the mood swings, I monitor him when he takes his medicines and go with him to his appointments. At least this way I’m able to ask questions and get my answer on my own. I support him for the love I have for him and I myself refuse to see anything happen to him. Yet life is very strange and everything does happen for a reason. I know me and I know if he had told me five years ago that he was bi-polar, we would not be together today. But since I feel in love with him over the three years that he held his secret from me, I refuse now to turn my back on him because I know who he really is, he just needs the extra strenght and encouragement to see that there is a such thing as tomorrow. We will get through this together!
I know the difficulty. My son is 33 and getting worse. His wife is ready to leave him and has made the plans to get a job in another place.
But, Dave, this woman has not extra money. She works for $12.00 an hour raising 2 daughters with state help and my son just lost his job 2 1/2 months ago with no prospects. Your program sounds wonderful! BUT and it’s a big but, the cost is difficult for most people to afford. Are there less expensive options out there? I am not sure they even have insurance for him presently.
He is beginning to think through the need again but is very rebellious. Any help or direction would be wonderful. He really needs help. He does look like a fool and very angry fool at that, most of the time.
I am currently dealing with an on again, off again, girlfriend. It seems no matter what I do it is the wrong thing. On top of the bipolar she is a full blown alcoholic. I have been through some experiences with her. Just recently she told the police I tried to assault her. They determined nothing
had occured. This was the last straw which brought me to this website to
get help for both of us. Many of my friends think I should have left her months ago. However, I feel like if I did it would be abandoning her. I believe it is worth anything to get her help so she can live a normal life.
For whatever reason, GOD has given me the strength to overlook these
things and continue to be there for her. She even gets mad when I tell her
I love her. I need help with this, please.
i think the word loser is not fair at all. like i have said if we did not want to be involved with someone with bipolar, we would not have done it in the very beginning. the fact that the majority of people stuck it out til it dam neared killed them and their children well thats not considered being a loser at all. so what you basically saying is that supporters must stick around no matter how ill they themselves become, no matter how they are verbally abused, run down, cheated on, financially depleated, lost self worth,etc etc etc. so its ok for the bipolar sufferer to do all these things and we as supporters must just UNDERSTAND no matter what the toll on our very being is? and as soon as the supporter feels the need that enough is enough they are then considered to be losers. and sufferers are UNDERSTOOD because they are sufferers. well how about UNDERSTANDING the supporter TOO. good grief so many supporters have delt with spouses, family etc for years from what i am reading, for them to now be told they are losers because they chose the enough is enough route. that is not fair at all. some people can only take so much. this is serious.who wants to live a life of fighting someone on a daily basis for years and years? that when you look you are 60 years old and have been unhappy for 30 of those years. as much as supporters MUST just UNDERSTAND bipola, there comes a time when bipolar sufferers also need to understand that we are also human. that we are not their personal punch bags and that we live, and breathe the same as them, as we do bleed and hurt. so why must it always be about the sufferer. ahhh shame he/she has bipolar so all supporters just suffer cos you have no choice. we have choices too, just as much as a sufferer and if its a supporters choice to leave a situation because of the damage caused, well who gives anybody the right to judge them? they have not endured there lives their heartache and their day in and day out fight and a fight out of love. a sufferer also needs to take responsibility for their actions. why must the supporter always be held and feel responsible for theirs and the sufferers actions. thats just saying, well if you have bipolar and you have a supporter just use and abuse them cos its ok cos you are ill!!!! wrong wrong wrong.
all i am saying supporters live with enough guilt as it is that they failed in helping their loved ones, the guilt of everything being put on their shoulders to now being burdened with the guilt of being told that we are losers if we give up. not a fair statement whatsoever!!!! actually very sad.
to all sufferers my heart does go out to you because i understand its difficult for you and you did not wish this upon yourselves but also understand where the majority of supporters are coming from, as we have to and try to understand bipolar. no one leaves because they want to. it is because they have to. and trust me your supporters have to live with that guilt for the rest of their lives.but there comes a time though, when its easier to live with the guilt than it is to become unstable and ill yourself because of the sufferer.
to all supporters, you are all winners and should be applauded for your inner strength, no matter what choice you are living today.
ooiii Dave sorry but i think you have pressed many a button on this topic.
sorry to all sufferers: as difficult a day you may have, if you have a supporter who will go to the ends of the earth for you, appreciate them and as difficult as it is , thank them in whatever way you can. saying thank you costs nothing, neither does a hug. its important and a supporter will not feel so defeated and will most probably persevere, it makes all the difference to us as supporters and will make all the difference to you. as much as a sufferer needs to feel loved so does a supporter.
Chontel, you hit the nail on the head for me. I would not expect a supporter to stick with me forever and a day, because it’s hard even living with someone who is BP II, as me. When the person with BP fluctuates between caring/loving and NOT caring/indifference and even hateful impatience, etc, it takes the patience of a saint to stick with that when you’re on the receiving end.
Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the best thing many a supporter could do is live their OWN lives, get out, move on and waste no time in finding ways to enjoy what little time we all have on this Earth. Until we are stable, we with BP will only drag you down with us: Slip out the back, Jack, make a new plan Sam, or whatever else Paul Simon said. If you are alive it is your duty to your God to live! To live your own life, not someone else’s. So do it, and feel not one single moment of regret if you must leave behind someone who is incapable of allowing you to live a proper life.
I think I would add that you have to realise not everyone is as self-motivated or resliant as you, David. If they were so, there would be a lot more people running their own businesses like you do! Some folk just can’t hack the pressure, worry or stress. That doesn’t make them losers. That’s just human nature. Just as many with BP can’t hack the disorder and give up, so too will many supporters fall by the wayside because they can’t cope with all that being a Supporter requires of them.
Dear David,
I appreciate reading your interesting emails everyday on Bipolar, I believe that through your information and support on a daily basis for the last 15 months, since my teenage daughter Kylie had her bad episode of mania, your help and determination of what you teach has given myself and my daughter the will to fight and manage this terrible illness.
I would just like to tell you that she has now moved out from my home, working in hospitality with great bosses that understand her situation.
Now has a been with a guy for 4 months who knows about her illness and seems willing enough to support her. Our relationship was quite rocky there for a long period of time, but in the last 3-4 months since she has been much more stable on her medication and now say’s she is finding she is getting her life back, we are building a brand new relationship between us, I am finding that Kylie is learning to trust people better and more open to true communication . For me as her mum this has given me a sense of peace with knowing and believing in prayer has helped me each day. I always knew that I would never give up on her as I finally know in my heart I got my little girl back. Anybody out there reading this that are carers or support helpers please dont give up on family members or friends that have Bipolar. Hang in there no matter how long it takes because I know that real person with bipolar loves you, and love them back.thanking you David for your encouragement as I pass your information to others.
Regards Lynda
Thank you Julie and Mandy Jay so much for your kind words of sympathy and care. I have read every post on this blog today and my heart is breaking for those who have bp and those who have supported or are supporting a friend or loved one with bp. A verse comes to me, “Come let us reason together”…. obviously not in the midst of bad situations but I have learned communication is necessary but often hard to come by.
I don’t think there are any losers on either side. It is a horrible situation but after nearly putting my eyes out reading everything I could on the web, from the medications manufacturers’ websites to DBSA and NAMI, I recommend support groups, ACOA, AA CODA, NARANON, any twelve step program that applies. We don’t put our loved one on the prayer list at church because we don’t want people to know???? take the shame out of mental illness, write the manufacturer of the meds and ask for help. Contact your state officials and demand better insurance laws to provide mental health coverage at the same level of general medicine.
The brain is just another body part and it can get or be sick too. My fiance was a powerful executive “mover and shaker” kind of guy before retiring, but I learned people did withdraw from him, they were afraid of the unknown. They didn’t want the responsibility.
I think supporters have to take care of themselves before they can take care of anyone else. My situation was so different from 99% of yours. Get yourself help so you can help your loved one. Set limits, learn self control, walk away when you are being abused, shouted at, learn to gain control of the money, somehow with God’s help and that of others, there can be progress. The one with BP must take the responsibility to accept and learn about the illness too.
I don’t know what else to say. I missed what you all are suffering and living through. My experience lasted 7 months; 5 wonderful life changing months and 2 terribly sad months. Who am I to tell you anything because you have lived it so long. I do believe knowledge is power and without knowledge from every aspect of the illness you are at risk of failure. I think there are so many cases that are different but with similarities.
God bless you all and in my pain of my loss today and it is very real, I hurt so much for all of you on both sides of this terrible illness. Carlann
To me, life’s events whether dealing with bipolar, or any other other type of challenge, it may seem at times that you become impatient, lost, paralyzed and just plain overwhelmed; the difference is how we deal with whatever is thrown at us. Maybe we just need a “time-out”. We go to our respective corners and do some thinking, some readjustments. I don’t believe we are losers. I know I am there for my daughter. Unless she tries to beat me up or her child that might be a different story. Please continue with your informatiom. It helps so much.
Can I just add that not all of us supporters are living with a BP parent or child – we are with someone who we have CHOSEN to potentially spend the rest of our lives with. For him to be stable and happy he needs to be on pills that take away any chance I have of ever having a physical relationship again. We have our ups and downs but I would never consider myself a LOSER even if he is having an episode. I do what I can and I stay there with him. Often I am the only one working and paying the bills and we have massive debts. I couldn’t afford your course in the foreseeable future, that’s for sure. David, I do understand what you have been through with your mother but please appreciate that relationships between mother and son are different than between partners.
I agree with all supporters who can’t take it anymore that you call losers. I have supported my partner for 5 years in his battle with bi-polar. Unfortunately now we are separated. This is not due to me giving up on him but him giving up on himself. He is mostly in the down of bi-polar, takes his medication, or overtakes it, and drinks when it doesn’t work well enough. Why take the meds if you are going to drink. He never follows through with any of the programs of help that is offered to him. He expects everyone else to make it go away or take care of everything. Well taking care of him as well as my two children and his two children from a previous marriage was out of hand. There were 5 children there and my 16 year old son was more of an adult than him. He has been told a million times the things to do to survive and live with bi-polar and even done the research to find ways to help but he doesn’t do them. Like finding the answers on paper is enough. It’s not! Finding the magic potion but not taking it does no good. He has not fully accepted that he has bi-polar and is not willing to adapt his life for it. For example he has short term memory loss due to medication, so write things down, get an agenda or even a voice recorder. No, he chooses to ask me all the time about appointments or miss appointments. Well now he is on his own. I love him and would like to be a couple but in the same house I can’t do it. He’s too dependent. I know he can live a stable life because my father and one of my brothers are also bi-polar and they have taken control of it themselves. but what more can I do if he will do nothing for himself? I can’t do it all for him. He’s not a child. And if he is in that bad of a state he should get medical care. I am not a loser, he is the loser because of all he has lost and has had many opportunities to get it back. Enough self abuse on my part. The support is there in abundance but he choses not to take it!
Carlynn-my deep sympathy for your loss. just remember you did everything to the best of your ability. with time yr pain will heal. i may not have lost my boyfriend to death but i think i have lost him to bp in life. there is no finality and i have to go through life wondering and knowing that the man i love with all my heart is out there but i cannot be with him because he fails to recognise things. i am young and it hurts so much but i will get through as difficult as it is. he is my life but i have to step back now and learn to breathe on my own because he is drowning me. its the worst thing to say but its a realization that i have had to face. and it makes me so very very sad. wish there was something i could do for him but i cant. he sees me more as a thorn in his side, an enemy. he does not realize i am there fighting the same war in the same trenches as him. and if i dont take heed the enemy is going to destroy me, along with him.
so very sorry again.remember to take one day at a time. cry, scream etc. let your feelings out. you will make it!!!!!!
Hi Dave,
Actually its worth the fight it has taken me 6 years to realize what i was suffering from (bipolar) my parents have always said that i am bewitched they don’t want to believe that their son is mentally ill. my wife has faced the worst experience but now she has come to understand it after changing my doctor and reading materials from the internet. thanks big for the good work you are doing, actually doctors never bother to give details as you do, your efforts are never in vain.
regards,
Gerald, Kenya
Dave,
Im Bipolar, and Im also a supporter-my 10yr old son is Bipolar/adhd. We both take our meds. Ive been reading your emails for a while now and some of the things you say are upseting. I understand your point of view as a supporter. Iam a supporter too. Try thinking of things from the point of view of the bipolar person. Do you think they WANT to MESS up everyone else’s life? Do you think they want someone around babying them and holding their hand, everytime they cross the street? Seems you believe they must not care about messing everyones life and thats why they wont take their meds-we dont care about OUR life, or OURselves in these episodes, you are in the way. After the episodes, we have no clue what went on. Have you ever taken an anti-psychotic drug? Do you know how expensive they are? and how they make you feel? Have you ever started crying for no reason and cant stop for hours, days? Have you ever depleted your bankaccount in one day and cant remember anything about it? Have you ever slept with a different person every night and dont remember why or who? Have you told so many lies even you cant remember your lies, but you insist that it didnt happen, or the supporter is lying? Do you walk through life with no actual friends, because you messed them over, no husband or wife, because you can barely handle yourself-even with meds-and some of us dont have supporters because they gave up on us a long time ago, and so did we..? Have you been to prison or jail, because you cant stop stealing? you dont need the stuff u stole, but you want it and cant stop wanting it-even with meds? Do you hear voices? voices that arent distinct, then sometimes are, but are there none the less and stay during an episode just to make it worse? or have you ever had a night terror? a nightmare so horrible you wake you crying, or screaming and cant sleep alone? Have you ever been so depressed you cant get out of bed, you cant go to school, you abuse alcohol, you dont go to work, you look and feel like a zombie, and all you do is get yourself into more trouble.? Sometimes its just easier for us to give up. Its alot of work to appear ‘Normal’ (I know there is no such thing as Normal) like you. Its easier and safer to be drunk all the time or high all the time, then the strange feelings, thoughts, voices and urges are numb and quiet. The medications dont numb as well as alcohol. All Im trying to say is even with meds, and doctors and counselors, some of our symtoms are still here, they dont go away completely, even with the meds-we feel guilty and alone alot of the time. We dont set out to make your life miserable, it should be helped that our suffering leaks out all over you, but unfortunately the people we love the most are the one we hurt the most- I have a good support and even though Ive tried to make ammends and said Im sorry about all the stuff Ive done. Every time I mess up or freak out and say or do something stupid, she (mom) reminds me of every little thing Ive done, all the stuff from when I was a teen and they (doctors and parents) thought I was just depressed. I mean its like Im darned if I do and Im darned if I dont. I will never have a life without Bipolar. I have a good job, that supports us well-outside of the home- for 10 yrs. I take good care of me and my kids-no husband…I cant maintain a relationship with a man, or anyone other than children for that matter. Im slowly regaining self-esteem and confidence that I am worth it and someone does/will/can love me, even if only my children. I will allways struggle with it. My son will allways struggle with it. I would not wish this on anyone. I just want you to know that its a living nightmare for us too. <
Hello, I believe it’s worth the fight…I just feel I am very delecate at this time and I really need to focus on myself….I’ve been letting my son 22 y/o walk all over me and just deny help for so long, and work against his meds. It just brought me to a point where I’m back into counceling for myself….I am broke trying to help him, I try to help where I can, he is smart enough to respect everyone else around him, He is like his dad was very abbussive in the house and shines on the outside….He needs alot of help,care, and counseling….I suggested a social worker at this time, I’d still listen to his complaints where he feels she/he not dealing with what she/he should be, I will oversee her work… I’m just lost and need to find myself….I’ve been out of work because of a breakdown and I have depression, and a sleep disorder at this time….I’m back into counceling and Al-Anon…..I need to focus on me at this time…..Sue
Chontel, thanks so much for your reply. God bless you all.
July 25, 2008
Dear Dave,
I do not know anymore about loser attitude or not. All I know is that my son bi-polar illness is killing me. I just had surgery for breast cancer on Monday. They push you out of hospital so fast, and I am in a lot of pain. My son has been so much worse since we found out about my breast cancer.
We did find a new psychologist for my son. He does work with mostly bipolar and mood disorders which is a good thing. I guess. All I know is I really need to focus on myself. How do you do that??? This is to be a horrible illness to deal with on a everyday basis. Laura