Wow! so true. People have no business giving someone with bipolar info to get off meds until they fully understand what this illness is. I have a friend who’s friend was a nurse with bipolar. Someone(a idiot)she worked with told her she needed to stop filling her body with these deadly pills and go on this herbal thing!!! Well she did and she was on her High mood, life was great, so she though this thing was working. Then the low hit like a bomb. She sat in her bath room stab her self in the stomach called 911 told them to please come because she is gonna shoot herself in the head and get there quickly before her children get home from school and clean up the mess. 911 knocked on the door and bang. she killed her self. All because some moron told her she did not need these meds. Please dont play doctor with someone who has bipolar, this is very dangerous. Leave it to the doctors to tell what this person needs. This is a sad thing , now two children are left with no mother and all because someone said stop taking these meds….

My husband is bipolar,his inherited from his mother, so he has been around it all his life.

He is badly addicted to alcohol, and sweets. Recently he had a kidney stone, which passed but left him with an infection. He had to go to the doctor,he hates doctors because he is afraid they will find out that he has bipolar. T
hey found out he had high blood pressure, and after an ultrasound found out he had a fatty liver.

He was put on meds for his high blood pressure. Because of his fatty liver and the meds, he was told to give up the alcohol.

He has no insurance, because he said he would never need any, he is invincible and would never need insurance.

I have fibro and told him the consequences of his drinking. I also told him that I COULD Not be responsible for him anymore.

We are in our 50’s, I realize he is bipolar but at some point they have to be responsible for theirselves.

I also told him because of his decision that should HE get hospitalized that the first things to go would be his expensive boy toys. Not my home.

He knows he is bipolar, he has seen the consequences.He can get help if he wants it, I have been through hell and back with him.

The stress is one of the reasons i have ended up with fibro. I cannot be responsible for him anymore.

Sometimes i have to help, but i have always done for him, i know the signs. But i can’t take a man to the doc, i can’t force him to take his meds, i have tried.

I think what you do for your mom is wonderful. Don’t get me wrong. But your mom has to also be responsible for herself.

I feel you are teaching her to let you be the responsible one. What is something should happen to you??

re this morning’s email. from one tell it like it is person to another, keep right on Dave. some of us appreciate that.

David-

I really like what you said here:

“IMPORTANT NOTE

-If you feel like getting off your medication,
ask yourself why. Then talk to your therapist
and doctor about your feelings

-If you have side effects with your medications
and can’t stand them, talk to your doctor. He/she
can modify your medication but can’t do so
if you don’t talk to them.

-Find a good doctor you like and trust.”

I can relate to the wanting to believe you are NORMAL and don’t need a crutch (medication) to get along in life. I have had many bad experiences with medications for this Disorder and it is little wonder this IMPORTANT part of recovery is greatly ignored and held very controversial.

What I do to combat this dilemma in myself is to “REMEMBER” that if I am “not” right that my doctor is available to get my medications adjusted so that I have that perfect balance.

Thanks for the tips!

Hope MOM is doing better. Does she like the cartoon comic MAXINE?

MAXINE is a hoot if you want to get mom some good laughs get her MAXINE and don’t forget to give her a BIG HUG!

Dave/All,

#1.”Went to multiple doctors over the years for really no apparent reason. As a result, each doctor had to start over from scratch to learn about him. This made treatment a nightmare.” I can identify with this. To have access to a psychiatrist in the UK you have to use the National Health Service unless you are super-rich and can afford private support. Over the last few decades, mental health has been poorly resourced and funded, resulting in long waiting lists (except for emergencies) to see a doc. And you don’t get a choice – you see who you are allocated … or, more likely, who there is! In my area, they couldn’t hire a permanent psychiatrist and relied upon locums. So, every few months, I’d get a new guy! And guess what? The new guy would always change the medication or the dosage! Bu then, when I complained about this to my family doctor, he smiled cynically and said, “Psychiatry isn’t a science – it’s an art form!”

#2. “Someone made a comment about the fact that I seem to be harsh with telling the story about my mom and her bipolar disorder. That
I am hard on my brother, my dad or myself. I am not harsh I just tell it like it happened.”
That’s not quite right, Dave – you tell it as YOU see it, which is not necessarily as it happened. Generally there are two sides to every story – more if other people see it! Do you remember the infamous Jamie Bulger Trial, when two 9 year old kids were accused, and convicted, of murdering a 2 year old by (Jamie)? I was a witness, but I couldn’t identify one of the boys in a line up! Other witnesses did and we all saw the same boys. So, why couldn’t I sot him in the ID parade? It’sd because we all bring to our judgements and observations personal bias – we see what we “expect” to see – this is basic “psychology of perception”. Hence, what you describe as “as it happened” is likely not as someone else (your brother or Dad?) remember the same thing “as it happened.” THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OF YOU, DAVE. After all, we ALL do this – we usually can’t help but do it! It’s how the brain works, to automatically fill in gap so we don’t have to process all the information. Tahts why you can unrdsetnad tihs snetnece eevn tohguh all the ltetrs of ecah wrod are in the wnrog oerdr. However, you are a bright fella and I am sure you will realise others will not necessarily see the events you describe in the same way. For instance, does your Dad see the incidents you describe as his failures in the same way? You know, when two people get divorced, in most cases each party blames the other! It wasn’t me it was him. It wasn’t me it was her. They can’t be both right! But that’s how they see it. All I am suggesting is that, when you criticise your Dad, you try to balance this by saying what he thought happened. That’s fair, isn’t it? Oh, and contrary to what you or Pascal think, I am NOT mad at you. I’m not attacking you – I’m trying to be what we call in the UK a “critical friend”. “Critical friends” are the best kind of friend because they “tell it as they see it”! They t ry to tell you what they think is the truth. “Yes-wo/men” are rubbish friends and employees because they don’t tell you the truth, they tell you what they think you want to hear.
Peace? ;o)

I got started with Dave’s newsletters a couple of years back when he first started. At the time I was supporting my now ex-fiance, but have stuck with his newsletters because I have bipolar family and friends.

When I met my ex, she was on Prozac only, but she started to have suicidal episodes, depression, and manic episodes. They started giving her more medications, treating her like a guinea pig, taking her off one thing and on to another right away. She had sample packets all over the house. There was no discipline to the medication, her behavior and energy was up and down and all over, and she ended up in the hospital with a severe suicidal episode.

I convinced her to go off the meds and clean up because it seemed like nobody knew what the hell they were doing at the county mental health facility she was going to, with peoplewho were not qualified telling her what she should take.

She got better for awhile, though she still had some issues but not anywhere so severe. The she got ahold of some more meds through her MD, and off she went again and ended up in the psych ward in a seriously bad state. I’m talking hallucinations, delusions, suicide, reduced motor function, memory loss, and nearly drooling.

Of we went from the medications again, and she was “OK”, but not really functioning in life, and a year later she relapsed again, only this time not quite so bad, and I did all I could to keep her out of the hospital because I had lost any confidence that had any idea what they were doing.

We are now apart, but still in touch, and she is seeing a therapist of some kind. She is off all meds and has held down a difficult teaching job going on two years.

The point is, my experience is that sometimes meds make things worse when they aren’t being given the right thing and when it’s not properly monitored by professionals who know what they are doing. I tried some of the things Dave mentions to find the right professionals, and most of this was before I got his materials which go much farther than I ever did, but I was stymied in every single move I made by her, her parents, her “doctors” her friends. Unless there is wider support, being the only one searching for the truth in a sea of enablers and deniers can be an impossible position.

Also, sometimes people DO heal (but not “outgrow”) of mental illnesses and don’t have to spend a lifetime on drugs.

Little funny:

Diplomacy is telling someone to “GO TO HELL” in such a way, they look forward to taking the trip. – Model UN Motto

Hi Dave/All (cute blonde joke lol)
So here,s a question, do bi-polar people have a conscious ? You wouldn,t think so to hear my daughter(35) or my neice! They constantly emoitionally beat up those around them and never say or act sorry. Always someone elses fault. The fact my daughter abuses drugs and alcohol sometimes, makes her a difficult case.She will not listen to any one, not even her doctor, who is her pill factory! She figures she has all the answers, until the middle of the night when you get I have no friends, I can,t go on, blame, blame, ect. She still doesn,t listen, as the second you say something she doesn,t like it is click! I want to be an emoitional support to her, but tough when they figure they are in control and she is control of her destiny which I,m sure will be suicide one day! Very hard to love a bi-polar person, but you can, thank god to hear some of you guys actually have this horrible disease under control. I have to admit I don,t like my daughter a lot though, shame. I do have boundaries, or she,ll destroy me. She hates me right now, so well I wait I,ll study what Dave has, listen to you guys and look for more. My cousin is taking all I can find also. God Bless all of you Diane

info. I agree, sugar coating is not always helpful, but you may recall the adage which goes “a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.” There’s some truth in that, too. As some of the carers will have found out, verbally “attacking” a BP to get medication or to see a doctor only drives them in the opposite direction. And isn’t that the same with anyone? If you want to change someones mind, you don’t tell them they are a bloody fool for believing/doing such and such because they will shut there ears to anything else you say after that. You have to persuade people kindly, not batter them, as I’m sure Dave would/will confirm, this being a basic sales technique, in which he is very well skilled. (Of course, even kind persuasion may not work with a BP in full flow because they ain’t reasonable, so any kind of reasoning with them won’t work!

I’m not sure why you are so critical of psychology. Without psychologists we’d have no therapists and without them, the treatment of BPs would be less effective overall. It therefore follows, without psychology applied in the field of mental health, more people would die because of their illness. You may not like what SOME psychologists say or think but don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

BPSerenity: I love that UN motto – LOL! Excellent! I just wish a few more diplomats – of their Governments – would heed the motto more often, if they would make more of an effort to understand where, and why, other people think differently. We might then have fewer wars! And if more people did the same in their own live there would be less conflict within families, between friends and neighbours, ethnic groups, colleagues, etc.. But I digress.

Diane,
Don’t forget, “attack is the best form of defense.” BPs can (and addicts of all kind) can be very defensive for several reasons. Top of mind is when they think they are in control and they don’t like being told they are not. Second, when they are NOT in control many don’t like to be reminded they are not in control! The latter are usually people who struggle with being out of control, think it’s too had to get out of their situation or are too ashamed to admit their predicament.

Diane, never believe a BP when they say they have it under control. It’s like saying you have a pedal bicycle under control when you have no breaks except for the soles of your shoes! The meds help rein in the BP, leading a low stress life, eating good food, taking exercise, cognitive therapy, getting sleep – all these things help keep the rein on the beast. But the bastard can, and will, still bolt from time to time whatever you may do! As David wisely advises, when it does bolt there are things you can do to help minimise the effects, one of these obviously being to get pDoc help, if only for a temporary change of medication or dosage. (This is where the “contract” between the carer and BP can come in handy, where you both agree what the carer shoild do when the BP gets out of hand.) The BP can’t be cured, it can’t be tamed; “it” can only be pacified as if blinking quietly to a wild cat, and then for only as long as “it” wants to be pacified. (When cat’s blink slowly at you or each other it’s a friendly sign, like a smile. If you do it enough times to a wild cat, you will find it often relaxes in your presence and may even “smile” back. But it’s still wild. You’ve not tamed it.) After that, the BP may fall back to sleep, to go into remission, because of, or in spite of, all the treatment and extras you do to contain it. That’s how it is. Carers need to understand this, as do those of us who are BP. We can’t change this so we have to accept it because the only ther option is … unwise! ;o)

My husbands family is doing the same thing. he told them he was fine and was only depressed but was ok now. I told them he has bipolar. He was only recently diagnosed this past summer. They did not believe it and said they thought his medications were the reason why he was making all the terrible choices he had been making and saying the horrible things he was saying. They now say he is fine because he doesn’t look or act depressed. They support him and arr angry with me for insisting he had bipolar and needs to go nack to his doctor and go back on his meds. They telling me I am hurting the children by telling them lies about their dad and just want revenge because he left us. It is so fustrating to me that since he no longer wants me to support him he now has his parents convinced he is doing ok and I am the enemy for wanting him to be stable for our kids sake as well as for him. I guess they will just have to find out the hard way like I did. I made so MANY enabling mistakes. Had my head in the sand. I pulled it out and got tough and now he’s gone. I can’t believe how naive I was and how easy it was for him to convince me that the things he was doing was ok. Like leaving his job among other things. I am trying to keep that perspective when I want to angry with them. I WAS them only a few months ago.

To Perphila- You still sound so angry. You need to pick up and move on,hopefully the worst is over. Don,t let his parents or anyone tell you were wrong. You know and now have moved on. You have your kids and yourself to love and be happy. Let the anger go and pray for him. Take care Diane

angy9191. Misdiagnosis. Very good point! I was reading an article the other week written by a pDoc alleged that a lot of his colleagues diagnosed BP because doing that was an easy option. Call it BP, prescribe drugs and leave it at that for the rest of their lives .. always remembering that (very proper) piece of advice: never stop taking the meds! As you infer, that is good advice IF THE DIAGNOSIS WAS RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE! The writer of the article claimed that Borderline Personality Disorder was much more common than BP, and that many people diagnosed with BP are actually BPD. If true, that’s scary!
Misdiagnosis can be very dangerous. I was originally diagnosed as having endogenous clinical depression, with BP being suspected. NO one told my family doctor that BP was suspected. So, when he changed my med from Cipramil to …. I forget what, I had a major rapid cycling episode as a response to the damned stuff. Fortunately, I remained sufficiently compus mentis (sp) to realise it was the meds that did it. That was fortunate because I assure you, the feeling was quite intolerable. I was hyper, crying, my head was buzzing, my skin felt like it was on fire, I couldn’t keep still, pacing up and down the room … The only way I got through that weekend was demanding my Mum to leave me entirely on my own (she didn’t want to because she was very worried, of course – I virtually had to throw her out) because I just couldn’t stand having anyone near me, no contact at all, and try to sleep through it until I could get to see my doc on the Monday. However, the feeling was so intolerable, it was touch and go as to whether I’d survive it or find the nearest railway line.
By the Monday, the rapid cycling and extremes of it had stopped but I was totally wiped out, physically, mentally, emotionally … just enough energy left to weep a bit when I saw the doc. Otherwise, I could barely speak, or even be bothered to do so. That depressed! He immediately rang the emergency mental health line, and I was evaluated the same day.
Clear as day, the meds showed a warning message – big letters. DO NOT PRESCRIBE TO PATIENTS WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER, and I now know why! Big ticket, big self congratulation: I survived it, where many others would have succumbed.

Yes, Dave, it’s true – it’s human nature to want to hear only what you WANT to hear, and disregard any and all advice. And as far as taking blame, well, most of us bipolar survivors want to blame anything other than ourselves for going into a full-blown episode. “I’m under too much stress,” “Things are bad at work, so I’ll stay home,” “My stomach hurts, so I won’t go into work,” “My doctor doesn’t understand me,” “The medications subdue my feelings, and I want to feel good, so I won’t take them,” etc., etc. We can’t take blame for going into a full-blown episode, because it IS the illness that produces it, but we CAN do something to alleviate the stress; and we HAVE to continue to take our medications RELIGIOUSLY every day.

Now, I’ve written on this blog that when I take an all-nighter, either to catch up on emails or be able to make an early-morning doctor’s appointment, I haven’t been taking my antipsychotic, only my Depakote. Well, wouldn’t you know it? I’m hypomanic, and, because of your email about the man who went off his meds and murdered his father – I’m back on the Zyprexa EVERY night – because that email SCARED ME TO DEATH. I’m just hoping I haven’t done irreparable damage by NOT taking the Zyprexa and I can get back on track. Even if I do need to pull an all-nighter, I will take the antipsychotic, as I DON’T want to go into a full-blown manic episode and hurt somebody OR myself. Apart from that, I CAN’T be hospitalized again; it would cost me too much (not monetarily), as my last hospitalization was 31 years ago, and I’ve been stable for that long (with intermittant mini-episodes, controlled with support from the local Community Mental Health system); being a landlord for 30 years; owning my own condo; having a wonderful boyfriend; being a respected member of the community. There are soooo many reasons to remain highly functional, I can’t begin to tell you all of them. And – who do I blame? MYSELF of course. It was a CONSCIOUS decision I made NOT to take my meds at night, and now I’m paying for it. My panic attacks have returned, though not as bad as they could be. But, I am trying to be proactive in taking my meds and getting back on track, hoping to avoid a major nervous breakdown.

I consider today’s email from you to be a real “wake-up call,” Dave, and I thank you soooo much for your wisdom in sharing your thoughts for us. Yes, with 100,000readers of your emails, you’re bound NOT to please ALL of us. And, yes, you can’t save all the world, but you can help save your little corner of it, one person at a time. When I was delusional, I thought everything I said and did WOULD save the world; however, I could only “preach” to my own circle of influence, and that was IT.

You are performing a WONDERFUL “community service,” Dave, and I know those of us who “get it” will continue to appreciate your hard work and input. Thank you so much 😉

BIG HUGS to all bipolar survivors and those who love them. I pray for you often, and hope your day is peaceful.

Graham,

Maybe if we put happy pills in the drinking water the world would be a more tolerant place. I don’t know? Just a thought and wishful thinking!

I found this joke last Sunday:

Sunday Humor:

GOD CREATED CHILDREN (AND IN THE PROCESS GRANDCHILDREN)

To those of us who have children in our lives, whether they are our own, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, or students…here is something to make you chuckle.

Whenever your children are out of control, you can take comfort
from the thought that even God’s omnipotence did not extend to His own children.

After creating heaven and earth, God created Adam and Eve. And the first thing he said was “DON’T!”

“Don’t what?” Adam replied.

“Don’t eat the forbidden fruit.” God said.

“Forbidden fruit? We have forbidden fruit? Hey Eve … we have forbidden fruit!!!!!”

“No Way!”

“Yes, way!”

“Do NOT eat the fruit!” said God.

“Why”

“Because I am your Father and I said so!” God replied, wondering why He hadn’t stopped creation after making the elephants.

A few minutes later,
God saw His children having an apple break and He was angry! ;

“Didn’t I tell you not to eat the fruit?” God asked.

“Uh huh,” Adam replied.

“Then why did you?” said the Father.

“I don’t know,” said Eve.

“She started it!” Adam said

“Did not!”

“Did too!”

“DID NOT!”

Having had it with the two of them, God’s punishment was that Adam and Eve should have children of their own. Thus the pattern was set and it has never changed.

BUT THERE IS REASSURANCE IN THE STORY! If you have persistently and
lovingly tried to give children wisdom and they haven’t taken it, don’t be hard on yourself. If God had trouble raising children, what makes you think it would be a piece of cake for you?

Hi Dave,
Thanks for taking all the time that you do to help us learn and understand our bipolar person(s).
Reading about your friend’s brother’s saga, I wondered if his doctor hopping may have resulted in an incorrect diagnosis? If, in fact, he has another form of mental or emotional illness, the bipolar meds may have been all wrong for him. Now that he is off them, it may seem that he is much better (for now). Sticking with the same (competent) doctor becomes even more important, IF a wrong diagnosis/treatment occurs.
Just a thought.
Thanks again.
Pat

I never state things in absolutes. One exception makes you untruthful.
Mr. Oliver states: “100% percent of the time people go off medications they fail…” or something to that effect. The point being here is if there is one person who has successfully transitioned off medications for bipolar…then they have made Mr. Oliver a liar.

harryf200$18Guy/VN:KIA-DAD. I’ll take issue with David IF I think he’s wrong but what you said is plainly unfair!

I’m certain David is easily big enough to defend himself – you don’t get to running several businesses and employing people by being soft skinned – but I am jumping in to defend him anyway, because what you have said is grossly unfair, as it is rude!

If “there is one person who has successfully transitioned off medications for bipolar…” at the VERY MOST that would make him mistaken, not a liar! But IMHO, it would be much more likely the person was a) going into remisson, or b) was misdiagnosed as BP in the first place. This does NOT make David a liar.

You must surely now see what you have said is unfair and it would be only polite if you apologised.

My daughter has ben diagnosed with bipolar and when she was first out of the hospital and after weeks of horrible dreams, waking us at night saying she wanted to kill herself and that the tv and computer was talking to her we decided right then and there to take her off her meds. We did some checking on what she was on and these were the worst of the side effects. Our daughter missed her first semester of her junior year of college because of her breakdown in Aug. She is 21 and we knew that it was a terrible thing to do, taking her off the meds but no one would listen to us. No doctor or therapist. She actually did fine, was able to hold a job during her break from college but now she is seeing a doctor that she likes and is on meds. They seem to be working but only time will tell. I’m also happy to announce that she is back in college (one week today)and so far our phone conversations have been really good.

In no way am I saying to go off meds, or quit meds………we took the gamble and one this time. We also know that this is a life long journey for our family but we are close and strong and will always be there for her.

momtomeghan

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