Hi,
How are you?
I just got back and I am dead tired.
Remember I was at that conference. Anyway,
it went really well. I will write you some
things that I learned that will be useful
to you after I review my notes.
In the meantime, I have any important
lesson to tell you about bipolar disorder.
Last night I was checking my voicemail
and I had dozens of messages. Just hearing
you have 31 new messages is enough to make
you want to run away :).
So I took at my message taking note book
so I could record who called and what time
and what the message was.
The first one was Jim from Chrysler Dodge
trying to get me to change me oil.
But message number two was a huge problem.
It was a 8 minute and 23 second message
from someone who’s loved one has
bipolar disorder. I could barely
hear the person but it was an incredibly
long and painful monologue about how
this person’s spouse has created all
these problems and is destroying her
life. She mentioned a number of
things that he did wrong and were
problematic.
I must say it was painful. Part of me
just wanted to delete the message because
after 7 minutes I didn’t even know what
the question was or how long it would
go on.
Finally the message ended and the person
said, “Help me” and left her phone number.
I was amazed.
Then I went to message number 3. You’re
not going to believe this. It was a totally
different person supporting a loved one with
bipolar disorder. This message was 6 minutes.
BIPOLAR LESSON COMING SOON… HANG IN THERE
Then I went to message 4 and it was someone
who was supporting a child with bipolar disorder.
This message was the longest I think ever 12 minutes
long. It was seriously a long message. If you
looked up long message in the dictionary that
message should be transcribed.
It ended with “help me” and a phone number.
I was so tired I simply gave up with dealing
with voice messages for the night.
Then I got to thinking about exactly what
I did when I was first supporting my mom
with bipolar disorder. If you remember I
had no clue at all what to do.
So I made a plan. I called already and
I asked specific questions and listened
to what people had to say. Most people
had no idea what to do because I was
asking the wrong people. BUT when I found
the right person for a specific problem
that I was dealing with, I asked
specific questions and I got specific
answers. AND I took notes as well. And
then I let the person go quickly.
I always followed with, would you mind
if I had another quick concise question,
I give you a call? The person in every
case said yes.
Now after I thought about all of this,
my past experience and the 3 messages I
got dealing with bipolar disorder. NOTE
I don’t even know if I have 25 more like
this. It’s going to be a long day probably.
Thank God I have a new woman that I hired
taking over these messages. There are just
too many and it’s killing my ability to run
all my businesses.
Anyway, back to what I was saying. So,
there is a huge problem that I see
people who have bipolar disorder AND people
who are supporting people with bipolar disorder
make.
That’s the long rambling non specific I need
help story.
Are you thinking, “Dave, what the heck is that?”
If you are new to the list, you might be thinking,
“This guy’s emails are really strange and he writes
weird, maybe he’s crazy…but I will keep reading
because I think he might have a good point.”
I do have a good point. Here it is. If you look
at everyone who can help you with bipolar disorder,
doctors, therapists, insurance people, other
supporters, employment specialists, myself,
so on and so forth, we all have one thing in
common–we only have so many hours each day.
The doctor has 24 hours in a day. The insurance
person has the same. I have the same. Everyone
has the same.
In addition, many people want to help people.
They really do. BUT the problem is, there are
generally lots of other people that need
help as well and all asking. What do you do?
Well here is what you do, you drop the long
sad rambling story (sorry to be blunt), because
anyone in this field has heard it probably between
200 and 5000 times. I personally can honestly
say that I have heard the same stories at least 2000
times.
You might think that I am crazy or making this
number up. Keep in mind that I volunteer at
3 bipolar disorder support groups, I have a
huge list, I take my own calls, read my own
mail, take orders for my courses/systems over
the phone and have been doing this for 2 years.
At first I use to feel bad when I would try
to speed people along to get to the question
or specific problem and avoid the story.
But then after I have burned up so much of my
time it’s a requirement. I will not listen to
really long sad stories. I get to the bottom
line. If you have been on the phone with me
for one of my f.ree consultation certificates
for NON medical and NON legal questions (because
I am not a doctor, therapist, lawyer, insurance
person, etc.) you know that I constantly ask, “
What’s your biggest problem?” And I strive
to get you back on track.
Some people might think this is mean but I have
to do it, other wise I will go insane and broke.
How? Well I will start to hear the same stories
over and over again because for the most part
bipolar disorder runs a certain course. Generally
speaking the stories are almost the same.
They go like this, “my loved one is such a
great person and so smart. Really smart. But
then when he/she is off it’s a nightmare. They
are like a different person. They did
they never would have ever done things like
this unless they were off.
They spent
mad. It’s destroyed us. I can’t take it any
more”
I have personally heard this type of story at least
2000 times.
WARNING
Here’s the problem. You have to get specific. I know
that a lot of this is painful and you need someone
to vent to and there are people for that. But many
people that can help you have limited time
and we are dealing with many other people. ESPECIALLY
the doctors they have super limited time so you
have to get really specific with them to maximize what
they can do for you.
If you notice in my courses and systems I talk
about a way to get extra time for doctors/therapists.
It involves using a note book, email, phone calls,
etc.
SUPPORTING AN ADULT?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com/
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.survivebipolar.net/
To make a long story short, you make your
questions before the appointment, make them
super clear and then give them to the doctor
before the appointment. It’s more complicated
than that but I don’t have time to write it
all out. NO I am not trying to force you to
buy my courses/systems I am just making a point.
Anyway, the other day I sent a email out
about making a list of the problems that you have
and being specific.
There are so many people on my list that
do NOT have a specific list for problems
they have. Each time they ask anyone
for help, they start with a really, really
long story and that makes people not want
to help because they have limited time
and don’t want to get trapped having to
hear a 1 hour story.
Anyway, people wrote me back about my daily
email about making a specific list of problems
as “too simple” and so wanted to know
when I was going to send “the good stuff.”
That is the good stuff. RIGHT NOW I want
you to make a list of your problems and what
you specifically need help with. I don’t
want you to go to doctors, therapists,
finance people, hospitals, etc being
a rambler.
Let others be the rambler. I want you
to stand out and be the person
that has specific questions that
you need help with.
The more specific you get, the better
the response you will get.
Then you won’t feel so frustrated all
the time.
Well I have to go now. I hope all this
made sense. A lot of this is hard
to write about but easy to talk about
but since I don’t own my own radio
show, I can’t talk about it.
It’s all in my courses however if you
are interested. Well write me some feedback
if you understand what I was trying to say
today.
Wish me luck on my probably now 40 voice
mail messages.
Your Friend,
Dave
P.S. Check out my F.ree blog with copies of emails
that I have sent in the past and lots of great
information for you:
http://www.bipolarcentral.com/supporterblog/
P.P.S Check out my F.ree podcast. Hear me give
mini seminars designed to teach you information
you can’t learn anywhere else.
http://bipolarcentral.libsyn.com/
Hi Dave
Didnt expect it to end that way was so sure while reading it you were going to say it was three members from the same family the sufferer the partner and their child.
Wish i could do more to help people learn writing a self help guide right now maybe you would like to read it and give me your constructive views?
kevin
I agree with Kevin39. I would like to help people to not suffer as much as I’ve suffered, and I’m not even close to some of those you’ve mentioned. I suppose joining a support group and offering what we’ve learned might be the best way. That and offering insight on this blog. I’m still learning about b/p myself and sometimes I’m scared to death (I think that might be part of being b/p). There are so many issues and so little time. I do have trouble formulating exact problems when I visit my psyc. There are tons of issues and I don’t know how to deal with myself anymore. I’m a different person and I don’t know me yet. How does one actually be concise with their questions when there are so many of them. Any suggestions?
Mr Oliver, it’s funny to learn you have heard one same story 2000 times and i’l remind myself not to be a rambler…
Hi Dave,
I’ve been with you for over a year now with my son’s problems but have had my head in the sand. He’s going into a manic phase again and I’m back to asking the questions. You’re right. I’m in an area with no support, psych’s, dr.’s etc. so when I find someone I try to be very specific. Thank you, and I’m getting my head out of the sand again. B
I got it exactly, each story sounds like they are telling it about my daughter!!!!!!! They are all the same……..
Dave, Wow thats alot of calls, this is something. I personnally will feel like I was stampeded by bulls, you dont have to take on all these peoples problems you have information people can learn but come on. To call you a say I need help, there is only so much you can do. Change your #, Because it is damed if you do or dont. What happens when something happens and you are mentioned as coaching this person, there are professionals that deal w really sick people. Watch yourself, The circle is round on layer which is the awareness the other is the bounderies, and the small one in the inner is you. Please remember I see these people getting real close to you. so, gat awarness back in ther and deliver what you need to. afterall its not a hotline!!! So long, Laura
Dave, First, I commend you on stepping up and helping your dear Mother/then, families with b/p. I do not/family member with this. I just, for an unknown reason, took an interest in it. Ihave free hrs. in the evening, if I can help, in anyway, I am available. Bless
franceshiggins_2@hotmail.com
My main problem my husbands family takes him in during his mania episodes they dont believe in the bipolar instead he is too stressed over life his responsibilities, being married he needs a break to spend and party etc they coddle him and it sets us back 10 yrs everytime. What do I do with that???? Doreen
Hi Dave:
I can understand it when you said don’t be a rambler, but everybody thinks that their problems are unique, that is why they always start telling you all the stories.
I myself have a family member who suffers with all the symptoms of bipolar all her life (she is in her late thirties now), but it was never confirmed by a doctor.
How do you begin to support someone who wants to spend all her waking time pushing loved ones away from her?
Hi Dave: I am very new to all of this. My husband was diagnosed just 2 weeks ago with bipolar disorder (however, not manic). Having a diagnosis is actually a relief; knowing the “whats” and “whys” of his life/personality is half the battle as far as I am concerned. I have already investigated a lot into the causes, symptoms, and treatments; and I believe we are already headed in the right direction. We had already been dealing with our credit/financial issues before the diagnosis, as well as previous drug and alcohol abuse. It has been a very lonely ride for me, but I feel there is hope now for us to live a fairly normal life once his entire treatment is determined and followed. Needless to say it won’t be easy or forever, but it will definitely be an improvement from the past years. I feel badly for him that it took so long for him to get the diagnosis and treatment he needed -it all began for him when he was 8 and he is now turning 51. There was NO parently support; in fact they were a lot of the trigger mechanism for his disorder. I enjoy reading your messages and always find something relevant for ME in them. Now I want to find a local support group (if one exists) so I won’t feel so alone.
Pam
Will keep short. I am a former RN w/ brother w/bipolar for many years. My best friend is, I believe, bipolar. Her bipolar husband has “dumped” her. She is “going down the tube.” She talks big about needing help but won’t get it. Is there any way I can “make” an adult, who I am not related to, actually get help? Thanks. Shoshannah
I will try not to be rambler. Good luck with the rest of the messages.
Pamster49.
I am in the same situation. My husband has just been diagnosed as well. I am also very new to this I would like to be able to talk with you further through e-mail it sounds like we have in commom and maybe we can get through together. Or at least be able to support one another with what we are going through. visit my blog and leave me a comment. I can then get back in touch with you that way if you like. You are not alone.
Hi Dave and fellow readers
-Did you know you really REALLY rambled an awful lot in today’s email >G< Anyhow, if I might add my two cents worth.. my primary doc's clinic, as many are doing, is going to total computer use and they seem to forget who we are in the process. After a month of having my meds really mixed up (blood pressure, muscle relaxant, narcotic for degenerative disc disease), i was steaming. My method is to ask "ok, what's the underlying problem here". That got me off wanting to chew my doctor up and spit her off and realize the computer thing. So, I made an appointment at each place I have medical records; copied the important stuff and made (1) a primary problem list, ie (a) medicated, but uncontrolled blood pressure (b) degenerative disk disease; etc. (2) A list of my current medications including the "prn" ones like inhaler for asthma that occurs once every two years (3) took time and 5 years of pharmacy records to separate out how long i'd been taking drugs, how many, etc. (4) A procedures list, including minor surgeries, trip to ER for dislocated finger. And then included clinic notes that verified things like "i doubt she'll ever work full time with the arthrhitis now in both knees and hips"; "node on aorda"... and why have we not talked about that one ?? Then you have probably 10 pages of your entire medical history (or the important stuff of the past 10 years or so and earlier if onset of something was earlier); documented with a clinic record. Make 5-6 copies, file under “Current Medical Records” and update at the end of each year; you can hand it off to new providers, EMTs, ERS, etc and they’ve got a concise history of where you are. Makes life much easier, especially if you have multiple medical issues and the doc is forced by HMO, Medicare, etc to spend no more than 10-15 minutes with you.
>G< as usual was off and running and apologize for ending on what sounded like an order... please read my other post as a suggestion; way to possibly consolidate a lot of medical history for yourself and family members so YOU get the best care !!!
Dave, i understand now how important a docter’s time is . i just want to make sure that my only son is being treated well. i have not spoken to his docter yet, i live in calif and my son is in arz. we talk by phone. thank-you for reminding me of thelimited time that everyone that is taking care of my son has. my son is bi-polar since the age of 14yrs he is now 27yrs.it is good to know that there is some one who understands about this heartbreaking diease.
Dave – after reading your emails about having a plan and making a list of most pressing problems, I started journaling every day that I can, even if it is just a few words. It has helped me to make a temporary plan, start my list, keep track of my meds, even anticipate when my moods are about to swing. My life is starting to feel a little less chaotic and manageable.
Hi Dave,
This is off topic but I have a question for you.
You have at least two websites, one dealing with bi-polar and one dealing with borderline personality disorder.
On both, in your bio, you write the same letter about your mother, only you change the words bi-polar and borderline personality disorder, depending on the site.
So which is it? If, in fact, it is both, why not at least put a link to the other site on each site, or combine them.
http://www.borderlinecentral.com/aboutme.shtml
http://www.bipolarcentral.com/aboutme.asp
In my humble opinion, I think you are being disengenous.
My daughter was gang raped at 12. We found out she was bipolar a few years ago also. Everybody in our family is tired of her actions. She has lost one child to CPS in 2004. And is about to lose another one. CPS requires her to do so many things to be able to get her daughter back, and none of them have to do with bipolar. She has turned to drugs to try and cope with what’s happening. Which has made things worse. She told me last week she was going to kill herself. CPS won’t let her live with me, since I’m trying to get custody of her daughter. She has nobody. She is 21 now. She has no insurance, no job, no car. I am all she has, and I don’t know how to make CPS understand that she needs more help than just drug rehab. Is there help for her that is free? My heart aches for her, even after all her abuse towards me. Family and friends are even turning their backs on me for putting up with all her actions. Raped or bipolar, they all think she needs to move on and get over what has happen to her and get a grip with life. I raised my daughters by myself, we were a very close family, and now nobody wants to even talk to each other, except for me. Is there hope for people without insurance and money?
Edwa
You can’t choose your parents. You can choose who you will go out on dates with, marry and have children with. If you can’t cope with bipolar moods, drinking or drugs then it would make sense to choose another to be “in love” with instead of complaining about various things that are “off” with a “loved one” and maybe that “one” would prefer someone less judgemental to love them or even wait until that person shows up in their life to have a relationship. My dad was always complaining about my mom (suspect that mom was bipolar or possible schizophrenic) when he could have opted to stay single until someone compatible got interested in him! He made me mad saying I was “just like my mom” whenever he got angry at me. Anyways, would make life easier if you either love somebody or leave them. I’ve had to leave numerous times to keep from getting over stressed by difficult people even though still felt I loved them. At least take a break instead rag to death those you supposedly love…
I appreciate all the advice and help. It does take time to assimilate, but that is certainly worth doing!
hello! I am new to this whole thing so I am still a little suspecious of it all… how do i know your course books are real and not a fraud? i don’t wanna waste $200… But I am really interested in all this and hope this program can help me.
David,
I think it is great that you are putting boundaries on people. I think it would have come across better if you didnt have any guilt about having to put boundaries on others. I love what your doing and the contribution you are making to the world. You dont have to explain yourself to us. You just have to be who you are!
Karla
Dear Dave,
I’ve never used Google, nor a Blogger, I don’t even know what these truly are, but I signed in anyway. I hope you get my message and respond soon.
As for time, Honey we all have too much to do and not enough time to do it in. What matters is we 100% at minimum to our causes our positions of aid and no one can touch that or take that away from you.
I agree on only telling the specifics, what I call, “symptoms” only. I do this with my doctor before I go and see him. I say M.E. only tell him what resulted and not how you got there. My only fear is that doctors truely don’t know enough about this disease and other like it and I almost would like them to be forced to learn more, and listen more to understand more fully.
Example, I told my doctor about a severe attack I had recently. Several triggers turned me into a constant state of panic. A final trigger left me in a “black out state” only to wake the next morning remembering very little about that night.
I need to know if other have this happen, too.
I also need to know why my doctor says he understands that I am Manic/Bi-Polar and have extreme panic attacks without treatment, and so he puts me on those treatments (Lexapro, Depakote, and Clonazapam/ and now just on Serequel since this last attack. Problem is…. I am prescribed medication for this disease, but my doctor will not put in my file what I am being treated for. In other words, he’s got some problem with putting it in my charts and in words what my diagnosis is and he evades saying anything that might lead to a diagnosis. Why?
Most important, please let me know what you know and other instances of this form of extreme panic/mania.
Sincerely,
M.E.
HI David
I understand your anoyance of listening to long stories/ messages/letters/e-mails. I have gone that route and paied for 3 years of therapy and all it was for was for venting. Not the best use of my $1250.00. I have learned that to the point is much better, but i do have to say when i have phoned my therapist to ask a point blank question, in a group asking a point blank question, with no information to support the question gets a girl alot of puzzeled looks. And then a buch more questions are asked of myself because they are not following. Wheres the balance? How much info is too much and how little is too little?
Don’t get me wrong there is alot to be said for not waisting your time or anyone elses so i totally support you in your directness. Myabe i’m crazzzzzzzy but do i have a point?
Hi Dave
I support you on your choice for to the point messages/letters/e-mail etc.
I learned that the hard way myself but have now found that if i just put a question out there with no leed up than the person /persons hearing the question are confused and ask me a buch of questions to figure out what the heck i’m talking about?
Is there a fine line thing here? I’m not so good at tight rope walking, so fill me in. How much is too much and how little is too little?
mel
PLEASE forgive my second message as i thought i lost the first one and re-did a second. NO coffee in me yet, eeeeesh too earily. :-S
David..Do you realize that you ramble too? Your messages are very long. Just wondering if you could have bipolar as well. These poeple are calling you because you have put youself “out there” as a person who cares and can help. Then you are complaining about their phone messages? Not trying to be hateful, but I wonder if you realize how you ramble in your messages.
Blessings Dave:
You are absolutely correct again. Making a list of specific questions and submitting them in advance gets the most “help” from a health professional. One gets down to the nitty gritty and you get targeted strategies, answers and even a better direction on medication by maximizing your time with the health professional. There is nothing wrong with “making lists” as this forces one to focus on specifics and not be drowned out by “mental NOISE”. Isn’t it amazing how simple strategies work and complicated plans end in poor results?
To all the folks out there that may read this and are skeptics, please hear this: LISTEN to Dave, DEVELOP a plan, TAKE ACTION, and EVALUATE the results. If you gorge yourself with “stinkin’ thinkin'” you will get stinkin’ results.
Dear Dave,
How many people are you helping now? If it’s as huge a number as you say, could you multiply your help by having a television or radio talk show? Would you consider it? It could multiply your effectiveness. Bi polar illness and its variants must be more widespread than anyone could heretofore imagined. If you are afraid of being criticized or sued for offering your common sense advice based on personal experience, you could have guest professionals to lend “credibility”–though I think your information makes their professional advice accessible in a way not offered before. Please think about this before your burn out. C
I would like to have yo contact me as well just for a moment of your time know your a really needed man,and I want to thank you for you time and really your, you have given up to helps people like us that need you to speak out for us that don’t know how are didn’t even know what we were dilling with in first place,I need help and do where to start.my family thinks this is and i quote”we think this is a bunch of shit”we’ll they don’t live with it day in and day out,I do and it’s taking every thing i have to get by day by day.
Dave, w. has been to a psychiatrist and is taking one med as ordered. He still believes he has ADD and wants to take a stimulant which the Psychiatrist won’t order. He is going to go to his PCP to try to get the stimulant due to lack of focus. How can I marry someone who won’t take the psychiatrist’s advice?
David,
I know a few others have mentioned this but it’s so blatant that I can’t help but point it out again myself.
It is almost hilarious to have you complain about people rambling in their messages to you when you are so undeniably guilty of that in all of your online writing that I have ever seen. One might say that you needlessly take up the valuable time of your readers with waffle and unfocussed commentary.
Please, if you realize how infuriating that can be, make a serious effort to improve your own communications. It’s really needed.