Hey,
How’s it going?
Hope you are doing well.
I am going to wind up get tons of hate mail about what I am going to say concerning bipolar disorder today.
Actually before I jump into that, I wanted to tell you something.
Last night, I started getting tons of phone calls again late at night. It’s really annoying. 3:00am phone calls.
I actually have an emergency line that I have to keep open for one of my businesses and I guess someone found the number and gave it to a bunch of people.
I actually picked up and was not happy. The person was shocked that I wasn’t super excited to talk about bipolar disorder at 3:17am EST.
If you have my numbers use your head and PLEASE don’t call late.
I must say as this grows bigger and bigger and bigger it’s hard to control. My lists increases up to 2000 people in a day. There are lots of things to consider.
The organization is virtual. No one understands a 100% virtual organization so it’s hard talking to lawyers, accountants, etc about everything. It gives me a headache. Especially when people find out it’s in mental health and I have lots of people working for me with one or more mental illnesses like bipolar disorder.
I HATE spending 45 minutes of a 1 hour meeting defending that it has worked and can continue to work. I know all these “professional” people are looking out for me but it’s still annoying.
Soon I am going to be posting a new job for an administrative assistant. We are working on a ew hiring process. This job is going to be really important and critical to the future grow.
There is no way I can continue to handle all that I have been handling.
I will keep you posted.
Guess what happened to me? I was volunteering the other day.
This man was totally out of control. He was talking loud. Interrupting. Walking around. He was scaring people. Circling around them.
He came over to me. And said all kinds of things to me. It was really making me mad.
Then I just looked away. I saw several people walk out.
I thought that this person might attack me. I actually prepared for it in my head.
At the end, I went up to the other members. I complained to them that this person should not be there.
They said, “Well he is a good member normally.”
I said, “That’s great. You can’t let manic people disrupt the meetings like this, for their own safety and the other people’s safety.”
The person running the meeting said, “Dave it’s not worth the fight.”
I was like, “And you are supposed to be a facilitator with that kind of attitude?”
I told him that there should be someone who should have stopped this man from doing that kind of behavior.
And it seemed like I was the only person who was, like, scared of this guy, you know?
Everyone else just acted like this was NORMAL!
I tried to reason with people, but I finally gave up.
Sometimes you can’t reason with unreasonable people.
If they couldn’t see anything wrong with letting a manic person “run the show,” no amount of my complaining was going to do any good. Even if I was right.
Let me tell you something:
Bipolar disorder does NOT give you a pass on bad behavior.
Remember that.
In my courses/systems below:
SUPPORTING AN ADULT WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
there are cases when people did all kinds of crazy things.
And supporters just stood by.
They didn’t know what to do.
They were embarrassed.
They didn’t want to fight with a person with the disorder.
The person got fired or suffered other dramatic consequences.
Supporters were made to look like fools.
But it’s your duty as a supporter to step in and get your loved one into treatment.
Don’t be like the people at that meeting I went to.
Don’t let your loved one be the manic person who goes crazy acting out and just doing whatever they want to just because there’s no one to stop them.
Just remember that bipolar is NOT a pass on bad behavior.
I know people are going to say, “Dave you don’t understand, I can’t control my bipolar disorder.”
That’s NOT true. If you can’t control it, get a better treatment plan and don’t go out into public. If your loved one is not stable, do NOT bring them out to say and do things to people. That’s dumb.
My mom said to me, “If I am ever manic you have my permission to stop me from making myself look like a fool.”
What annoys me the most is the people who go in and out of episodes all the time and say and do crazy things and then say, “oh, it’s my bipolar disorder, feel bad for me, I can’t help it. Deal with it.”
I am super mad at the person that did this at the meeting. He should know better. The people at the meeting should be ashamed of themselves for allowing it as well.
You know what? I bet 80% of the people at the meeting will NOT come back.
Think I am too hard on this person or being “mean”?
Let me know. Hey I have to run. Catch you later
Oh, later today, I am going on a charity run/walk with my Goddaughter Anna who is 7 months old. She is not going to be doing any walking or running J
I am going to be pushing the stroller. I can’t wait until she can walk and talk. Since I know nothing about babies I am not sure when that is going to be? I have ask someone or look it up online J
Okay catch you later. Have a great day and let me know about today’s email. Okay?
FIND OUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT ME
Visit: http://www.bipolarcentral.com/testimonials
David Oliver is the author of the shocking guide “Bipolar Disorder—The REAL Silent Killer.” Click Here to get FREE Information sent via email on how and why bipolar disorder kills.
Post responses below
For many years alcoholics were “tolerated” or ignored until it was finally recognized that alcoholism is a DISEASE. People then began to address it and learned about enabling, etc. Hence was born AA and Alanon, etc.
The same attitude seems to prevail with mental illness. Ignore it, it will go away . . . NOT! Allowing or enabling someone with a mental illness to act out and not get into treatment is paramount to ignoring the alcoholic. Both are diseases and both need treatment. When someone with a mental illness is allowed to intimidate or control a meeting like that person did – then the proper controls aren’t in place with the people in charge of the meeting. Allowing one person to act out so that everyone else who might get something out of the group leaves and never comes back . . . what is accomplished with that?
It’s not “mean” to make someone with a disease to get treatment! In fact, just the opposite . . . it is the kindest thing you can do for them. Allowing the inappropriate behavior because “it’s not worth the fight” is like saying that the alcoholic should be allowed to drink because it’s not worth fighting with them. Every life is precious! It doesn’t matter if the person has a mental or physical illness . . . each person is important!
It has been my experience that sometimes, people in charge of these types of meetings have the best of intentions but NO CLUE how to actually handle a difficult situation. Their solution then becomes – ignore it, it will go way or stop.
Education and training will go a long way in getting people like that man the kind of help he needs – education of the facilitators and the organizations that run the groups. There is an old addage . . . the road to hell is paved with good intentions. How true! The facitator probably had the best of intentions to be there to help people but by doing nothing – helped no one.
Keep up the good work Dave and don’t stop speaking out! It’s the squeeky wheel that gets the grease!!
God bless,
Natalie
I loved your e-mail to-day.As I find with my daughter who is like you. You generally are too hard on yourself. I can’t always comment or answer but I read everything you send me.
Hi Dave, I realize what you are saying. I am also the blame not being able to control my wife while she is in one of her episodes. That is why people like me need to learn more about the disorder and how to control it rather than letting the person themselves take control. I am still a novice at this. I am still reading all of your information that you have sent me. It is so difficult to try to understand that these people are ill even though sometimes they appear normal to one’s eye. There is a lot of education that I need to do for myself first before I can honestly say that this is going to work for myself and my wife. I am getting to know some techniques that you have described in your information, but haven’t tried them as of yet. Wish me luck and peace, Phil
I totally agree with you on that. Why put yourself through that as a supporter…on the other hand, my guy hasn’t been stable since I met him (8 months ago) and I find that I really can’t take him anywhere. Sometimes I think they enjoy acting like a fool and being the center of attention. How can you communicate to them that their behavior is very inappropriate and embarrassing? My guy doesn’t see anything wrong with his behavior and I’m not sure if it’s the disorder or the way he was or WASN’T raised?
I HAVE WITNESSED MY DAUGHTER (AGE 40) YELL AT PEOPLE, RUDE TO PEOPLE, ETC.
IT IS VERY UPSETTING.
I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT SHE COULDN’T HELP IT.
Dear David,
I’m the mother of a 31 year old daughter who I believe has some sort of mood disorder. She refuses to see a doctor, so we have no diagnosis. She doesn’t think she needs medication and makes life very difficult for us (her family members), she lies and manipulates all of us. I was glad to read your comment that “Bipolar disorder does not give you a pass on bad behavior.” I felt this to be true, but am very encouraged to hear someone else say it. Have a great day and thanks.
Ann in Virginia
Dave, best one so far; you are right; disorder does not give one permission to behave badly. Thanks! I will keep reading and perhaps one day tell you my story…
Abel
I wholeheartedly agree. BD does not give anyone a free pass to be menacing, controlling, delusional, etc. I have many people with BD in my life, and recently had to get help for one of them. This person was threatening another person very close to me, destroyed personal property, was very close to physical abuse, and was self-medicating with alcohol and not taking any medication. I calmly said to this person, I am going to call three numbers if you do no behave yourself tonight. (Two being the police and a mental health helpline that can involuntarily put a mentally unstable person in the hospital..the other person was even more effective, though I’m going to refrain from identifying this person.) I also said that I was going to call the last person no matter what; so you are not off the hook with this behavior. Well, it turns out that he is getting some help, has stopped drinking and saw a psychiatrist yesterday. He has not been put on any medication yet; I am guessing it is due to the substance abuse. I must say, this is the one thing in the mental health care system that irks me the most; substance abuse and MI often are comorbid and ALL treatment plans, especially emergencies, should be conducted as a dual diagnosis. This person has already been diagnosed with BD and been on Lamictal. Lamictal has actually been shown to reduce the craving for alcohol in some clinical studies. Anyway, he is seeing his Pdoc every week; but even though he is in treatment, I beleive it is substandard. What a surprise.
I don’t understand very well about my partner’s behaviour. I’m learning and he’s shared with me that some of his responses are due to his condition or not taking his medication.
We’ve made plans together. Most of these he has initiated, particularly, those involved with my personal life and my business. He’s asked and I’ve let him know exactly what I need, being sure as I would in any business transaction to compose and document an outline.
His response has been that I haven’t scheduled time for him and his needs, which I am hesitant to say are mostly sexual. His accusation is that I am expecting too much of him and that I am abusive and controlling through my actions. However, I might add, that I gave him the information and asked him to make changes which would allow him to be involved and to try to make it easier for him. He is a production manager for my business. He cancelled out on me one hour before the presentation accusing me of being late, not being ready, and not making adequate preparations. This is a business project. I make the presentation twice a week and have been doing so for several months. I’m always ready and prepared because I have to be. This is my job.
Anyway, he cancelled at the last minute. I did become frustrated and upset with him, tried to remain as calm as possible. I found myself defending myself – “no, I’m set up and ready to go” “I’m ready, I just need to touch up my makeup and hair” “the program is already written” just on and on about things he kept bringing up that he insisted we not prepared, but were. I agreed to make the presentation alone and give him more time in the future. He responded by immediately breaking off our relationship, cutting me off from contact, making incredible accusations, threats, etc…. I finally lost it and told him I wasn’t going to put up with this. I showed him his responses on the emails and IMs I’d sent to him and his replies. he told me I was manipulative and controlling. The experience left me stunned. The early morning hours were spent together in a very loving fashion. He kissed me goodbye before he went to work as I slept in. I am totally confused and amazed.
His last response to me has been that his therapist feels I am verbally and emotionally abusive. He states that she asked him “what would Peggy say”
(Peggy is is his deceased wife.) My field is in academic and career counseling although I have had to take the full gamut of courses in counseling. I have difficulty believing that a counselor would ask him something like this and encourage him to take advisement like this – from Peggy, I mean. This is almost morose. Reality tells me this is not clearly what she intended or stated.
I’ve written to him that I am still supportive of him and that I love him. I’ve asked him to allow me time to feel more comfortable with him. As far as I know he has complied with my requests. Although, he has been very hostile. Concerns from my colleagues are that he has a weapon, which he mentions frequently – a hanggun and I’m not sure how he obtained a permit for it.
Feedback is appreciative. I am distressed but for the most part the people around me feel I am relating things clearly. I really do love him. However, at this time I’ve told him I will comply with his wishes to separate. I’m mostly concerned at the moment with my safety and security. He has access to my apartment, I don’t have access to his home.
Pardon the misspellings.
In the 4th paragraph “we” should read “were”
In the 6th paragraph “hanggun” should read “handgun”
Thank you – Elisabeth
Dear Dave: that kind of behavior should never be tolerated. Unfortunatel y no one took a stand and stood up to this man, He was successful in his plan to intimidate everyone at the meeting. Everything cannot be blamed on bi-polar. Under that banner we would have a society with a bunch of bi-polar people holding people captive to their whims. Society has rules of conduct so shoule bi-polars be goverened. Otherwise why seek any help just keep your bi-polar behavior.
Ecelyn Stuart
hi i just read you post about bad behaviour.my boyfriend has bipolar type 2 and about once a month goes into depression,he doesnt seem to suffer from manic episodes.but when hes depressed he cuts himself off from most people(including me)i dosometimes wonder if its the depression or if he just wants to distance himself from me at that particular time.he says its the bipolar but i do wonder.i know this isnt exactly bad behaviour in the sense but it does upset me and i find it hard to understand.we havent been together for long,maybe a few months so we arent exactly in a commited serious relationship.i know this sounds awful but i sometimes wonder if i should finish it before i get 2 involved as i think do i really(or can i)deal with someone with bipolar ?
Dear Dave, I am in total agreement with you regarding people with,or even without being pi=polar and acting the a blank,blank! The is no excuse for such rude behavior and it should never,ever be tolerated! Those kind of bi-polar people are the kind of bi-polar people that give me,yes, I am bi-polar, a bad name! Thank you so much for reminding people that rudeness is still,wven in 2008, unacceptable! sincerely yours, marilyn from ga
All kinds of people have to fit into society and respect others no matter what. There are lot’s of disorders which make social life choices difficult but I agree, disorders are no excuse for bad behaviour and abuse of innocent people. I don’t believe that allowing these people to react in a negative way does them any good either, I think it makes them feel bad about themselves which in turn makes it harder to control their actions towards others – and so it goes on. I know nothing about Bipolar Disorder but I imagine that the more positive actions which can be commented on, the less likely the person will be to repeat the negative behaviour. Not a magic solution and, I imagine, not quite a simple as that! But I think it would help a little bit.
Thank you for stating so clearly, that being bipolar is not an excuse for bad behavior.
My boyfriend uses me as a buffer between him and the world, to protect himself from situations where he would tend to lash out and protect the world from HIM. It works well for everyone else, but not so well for me.
M. is 12 years older than I am, and already retired. (I’m still in my 50’s and retirement is many years away.) M. has been on vacation without me twice this year, and is now gone for the third time. My friends ask me how I can handle these trips with ‘other women’ (one friend is 75 and one is 80), but I just smile. I know that although both these women idolize him, without the built-in protection of having me to come home to, M. is sure to lose it during the course of the trip.
This has happened both times he’s been away this year, with Friend #1 (a therapist who knows M. is bipolar), and is bound to happen now, while he’s away with Friend #2 (whose native language is not English, and has probably missed a lot of M.’s zingers up till now).
I’m at home without him now. It’s a good space from which to consider my 4+ years with M. I love this man dearly, and I understand that his Bipolar Disorder is a REASON why he has trouble controlling his ‘temper’, but it’s not a free pass on bad behavior.
I am bone weary. I think it’s time for me, finally, to look for a support group for bipolar supporters.
dave i just wanted to say how i couldnt agree with u more. I have a twin sister who has bi-polar that about a year went into a manic episode and has since desided her bi-polar has gone away on its own. We no longer speek because of this she is now getting a divorce and has 3 kids in the middle. She feels she has all the control in the world and can do what ever she wants. Our entire family just says its not a big deal she will get over it and i know thats not true. I get so tired of hearing people say she is sick so its normal for her. No its isnt normal even for her and just because she is sick doesnt mean she can treat people badly. Thank you so much for adressing this
Hello again! I apologize for the errors in my last posting! I am,I believe,pretty educated and with pen and paper do very well! Unfortunately, I am a terrible typist,so please forgive the spelling errors in my last posting! thank you so much, marilyn from ga
O K Dave, it’s OK. Never having met you I still feel I know a little about you, if you never had problems with people you’d be a fake. A fake you are not. It is verygratifying to know that with all your knowledge you can get to your witts end, this gives me so much hope. Because of you and your e-mails I have had a new lease on life. I met my lady on the internet a little over a year ago, my wife of 43 yrs. had passed on and I was very lonesome. My lady and I met in a mutual location and it was love at first sight.
Before too much time passed I found she had a serious problem, even though she worked with people.
I kept thinking I was doing wrong things, (and probably did many times), she would have what I thought was temper tantrums, I got my feelings hurt many times and was about to give up; then I heard of David Oliver. You are a Godsend to me, I have been to weather some terrible storms and it’s all because of you.
Don’t be discouraged because of som isolated event. The good you are doing far surpasses any discouragement that comes your way.
I as yet have not been able to afford your book but the crumbs from your table have kept me going. Keep up the wonderful work; don’t let some lesser than you make you think it’s time to bail out.
There is a verse of scripture that reigns supreme, “I can do all things thru Christ who strengtheth me”. hebjhappy@hotmail.com
Dear Dave,
Thank You for your email today. I think you were right on about what you said about the person acting out. You know I think he wants someone to stop him and not let him get away with blaming his behavior on Bipolar. i have found myself doing that sometimes. I have learned the hard way after the acting out and me looking like a child that I figured out what I was wanting. I am not going to tell you my life story. I have been thinking about suicide for about a week. I know that is not what I want. I want the episodes to go away. I have found when someone confronts me about my behavior and I own it then I know I can change it. Anyway I just wrote to tell you Thank You for coming into my life. I look forward to your emails everyday. I need an over haul on my medications. I am getting a new psychiatrist on 11 Auigust in a few weeks. I have a really good psychologist I see every week. She comes to my home to see me. she has given me the suicide hotline for veterans and they are very nice and supportive. The Va has been really good to me. I appreciate the hard work you do in learning and knowing about disorders and helping people like me to live normal lives. Every day I read your email I take one step closer to living and one step away from dying. God Bless You!!!!
Thank-you for stating what needed to be said and what I needed to hear. I certainly let my daughter off scot-free with her behavior and my mother certainly let my father get away with many a situation. My childhood memories are filled with crazy things my father did that made me want to hide. I never confronted him about this and when he died I felt like I had lost an opportunity to get to know the real person he was when he was not acting out (which was a good part of the time). I will remember not to enable my daughter (who is not as severely impaired as my father). Time passes quickly and your loved one deserves to be know as the wonderful person s/he is when they are not impaired.
Hey Dave I absolutely agree with you 100% I have Bi Polar and I have the right to be treated fairly as well as to treat others the way that I want to be treated. If I want respect I have to give it. I get irritable when my mood changes and I keep myself away from others so that I do not say or do something that could offend them until I know I am feeling better. I am thankful for my MSN as my alternative way to communicate. I also believe Dave that you put too much onto yourself and you that you need to take care of your Health and well-being as well!!
well dave i thought i had found a site that would help me manage my bipolar disorder but you like most of the other 95% of the population have just said build a bridge and get over it. well if i/we could i/we would your site is obviously just an ego trip for you were you think you can stereo type and bag all suffers if you had true care for sufferers you would be more supportive.
your kind are the people how make it hard for anybody who has a mental illness, if i was in a wheel chair or had some physical disability you would be more supportive . bipolar support site ha ha what a joke get a life and stop driving people like myself to suicide.
please remove my name from your site as i find your comments very offensive
trevor
I am frightened by what: Elisabeth Says: ( July 17th, 2008 at 9:12 am )
regarding her employee/boyfriend.
The two facts that he has a handgun and has access to her home and is not taking his medications – are all kinds of red flags!
She needs to change her locks and protect herself. I hope she will take steps to protect herself.
I totally agree with you Dave. And don’t give up. You have helped so many people as evidenced by all the comments here. I also can not afford your books yet but your emails have got me thru a ton of bad experiences. Keep up the awe inspiring work. We love you.
dave , i have been reading your e-mails and i have found your information completly invaluble, i agree 100% with you . i have a girlfreind that i totaly love and have been with now for about 3 years and she gives me that same line about how she can’t control her behavior because of her disorder and i get upset when she tells me that , i have told her exatcly what you said , that bi polar is not an excuse for her to go on a rampage and to treat me like dirt . i am so glad that you have this program and e-mails to help people who are trying to help those with bi polar , you are my hero
You know I subscribed to this because I have a friend who states he is bi polar…I didn’t really beleive it. But the more I am reading the more I think he is. And he uses that excuse of “oh, it’s my bipolar disorder, feel bad for me,I can’t help it. Deal with it.”
He was on meds but said it didn’t let him feel anything so he stopped taking them and since I have known him for about a year now he has had alot of episodes. I try to help him by talking to him and teaching him realaxation techniques (which seem to help,when he can stay focused). I have recently mentioned he start taking meds again and he doesn’t want to. Any suggestion on how to talk him into it? He is also very bitter about doctors, any suggestions on how to get him to go to one again?
If anyone can give me any feedback on that I would appreciate it. My email is sincitygurl02@yahoo.com
Thanks in advance!
Channa
i agree that being bipolar gives u the rights that no one else gets but me being bipolar myself i do not agree that i should have to keep my self secluded from the world i am human and it is not my fault that i am this way i want people to think of me as normal not just someone with issues
I think bad behavior adds to the stigma of people with a mental illness are somehow bad people. People with mental disorders who I have worked with and am one of them, are not bad people. We may just do things without thinking from time to time. This man you described in your email sounded threatening. Someone needed to put him in his place.
I personally am moderately going through a manic phase. I can’t sleep well. I have too much to do. Too much research to read. I think I may have schizoaffective disorder as well which is scary stuff because I feel like maybe I am slipping out of control and need hospitalization again. That is my last resort. But the doctors here are so hard to see since I’ve worked with them and know them professionally.
Hey Dave, My job as a peer mentor in a group situation is to control the group and the discussion. If a client is becoming disruptive, it is my responsibility to “ask” that person to stay on subject or stop sharing (talking). If that is unsuccessful, I explain to that person that they will have to leave the room, if the behavior continues. The next step is to ask the person to leave the room. If he/she refuses to leave, the group is asked to leave the room and the person who is refusing to leave the room. I then explain to that person that their behavior will not be tolerated, and further outbursts will be dealt with harshly. This is usually very effective, and no further action is needed. It is also important that the rest of the group understand that these meetings ARE NOT a place to act out, or let themselves get out of control. As can be expected, anger, yelling, & ranting, are all natural reactions to the ways we (yes I’m bi-polar also) are sometimes treated by many that do not understand our condition, so long as it is not directed at other group members, and does not threaten to harm themselves or others, certain amounts of ranting(venting) are tolerated. My final resort is to call our specially trained mental health officers, and have the person forcefully removed from the property. Usually the officers will give the person a ride home or to another location, unless the episode becomes violent, then the officers will take the person to jail and charge them appropriately. Because certain behaviors will not be tolerated in any society.
Dave-
You are right again about bad behavior. It is a clear sign someone needs help. Your description fits someone my husband works with but no one will do anything about her to get her into treatment. Management doesn’t want to get tangled up with the work union and so is ineffective in dealing with employee behavior. Co-workers just feel sorry for her and are enabling her continuous bad behavior and believe her outrageous accusations against others because they are afraid to be the brunt of her behavior. In the meanwhile, she is abusive and just downright inappropriate with her rants and language. Of course she doesn’t think there is anything wrong with her and blames everyone else for her outrageous moodswings and anger.
Of an interesting note, and I am wondering if this is common with others wiht BP. My husband has BP and can see the inappropriate behavior in his co-worker but doesn’t see it in himself. Luckily his behavior is not as extreme as hers but they both constantly complain, are very negative. He complains about her all the time and I am thniking in the back of my head, “That’s the pot calling the kettle black”. They are so much alike that I really feel she has BP but a more extreme form than my husband.
And a note to Trevor: To be a good and effective supporter sometimes you have to practice a little tough love to keep a someone with the disorder in treatment and on the right paty. Dave constistently says you have to have a good doctor and treatment plan. He is very supportive but isn’t going to get sucked into a pity party, which is what you are looking for???? A website is not going to give you the kind of treatment you need. You need medication and a therapist. This and any website is for people to share information and experiences.
The other day I called my son down for not doing his chores. I was upset with him as I pointed out to him in an angry voice that he had put clean dishes in over dirty ones to get out of the job. I yanked out the top shelf of the dishwasher and it hit his arm not hard but not just a tap either. he started his usual “i’m hurt, feel sorry for me” as does when he is is trouble or doesn’t want to do a task/chore. I just walked away and went to the living room. He must have laid down on the floor as he went into this tirade. He started yelling for me to come in there, pounded on the cabinets, pounded on the floor, all the while alternately screaming, crying, for me to come in the kitchen becausehe was hurt. Don’t get me wrong, if I thought he was really hurt I would have been right there. But I knew he wasn’t so I refused to go in. then he started saying he couldn’t see which I am not sure that is true when he says it but it is the third time that he has gotten mad enough that he says he went “blind”. Still all the while he is hollering at me to come in there. he got quiet for a minute or so and then said “When I can see, you’re dead” and then he said it again. At that point I had had enough. So I went looking for my flip flops to leave for the grocery store. As I was in the dining room he comes “crawling” in and says “I cold kill you right now”. He stands up and follows me into the living room and gets right in my face. I stood there almost nose to nose with him literally, looking him in the eye and said “You don’t scare me.” Then I walked out to the back porchand found shoes and left. As I was backing out the car, he came out crying and wanted to go along. i told him that there was no way he was going anywhere with me after what he had just said and done. He held on to the car hood at first and then finally let go and tried to hold onto the side as I edged out of the driveway. The whole time he was going thru all this in the house and outside, I kept trying to redirect him back to the original issue, doing the dishes. I kept saying Travis you need to do your dishes. When I left I told him he needed to do his dishes. i did go to the store but just for a short time. The scary part id that I didin’t know what I would find when I got home. I didn’t know if he would do the dishes, hurt himself , or do nothing. Fortunately, he was just finishing his dishes. I told him he’d done a good job and that I appreciated him choosing to do them. When he finished washing the last pan, he sat down and then we talked and he said “you wouldn’t come in”. I said no that that was a pattern of his to get hurt or have to use the bathroom to get out of work and that I was really fed up with it. I told him he had a responsibility to this family and that included doing his part around the house. Of course he didn’t feel good then and I believe that. He always ends up with a nauseous feeling after getting upset. Why I told you all this is to let you know that I kept thinking about your emails and his support system. We have a local doctor that really doesn’t know about bi-polar and myself trying to get Travis through this because the nearest dr that really knows anything about it is an hour away. Basedon your emails I knew that Travis needed more than that. So I called a Psychiatric Hospital, the one that he went in to when he was originally diagnosed with Bi-polar in fifth grade almost four years ago. I have setup an appointment with a therapist that does a lot of the testing for that hospital and was the one that originally tested Travis in the summer before his 5th grade year. he is going to meet with Travis 4-5 times and then make a determination as to whether Travis needs to be retested/re-evaluated and also make so me meds recommendations based on some trends we have seen in the last few years. I just wanted to say that it was your info that comes every day that gave me the courage to get him back in again. I love him so much and just want him to be successful in his life. Thanks for your encouraging words and reminding me that I didn’t have to do this alone and really shouldn’t be.
Sunni
Dave:
I deal with bipolar on a daily basis…and if I were to be the one to lead a meeting I would want a support person behind me to let me know that I was going off. I don’t use the disorder as an excuse for anything, but I am use to people using it against me…to try and take my children from me or to so called keep me in my place.
That gentleman was wrong for even attempting to hold a meeting…wasting peoples time. Without a good support system people with bipolar don’t always make good choices. Our support system will be honest with us tell us the truth and not hurt us.
Dave, what you are doing is a good thing.
Thank you for your level-headedness and practicality! It’s reassuring to know that we don’t have to allow our loved ones to behave this way! THANK YOU!
Dave,
As a new comer to this forum, first, I want to sincerely say how much I appreciate what you are doing for ‘our’ community. Great job, noble job, compassionate work; very helpful….
It’s unfortunate (to say the least) that you are receiving these calls at 3AM. Don’t pick up, never reinforce bad behavior. As everyone is probably aware, psychiatric office answering machines instruct patients to go to the emergency room if they’re truly having a psychiatric emergency. It seems less than helpful when you are sure you’re going off the deep end but it’s necessary for the doc’s mental health as well as to help the client learn to decipher/cope with what’s real and what’s not.
Yes! I agree with you all; the kind of behavior that was described in Dave’s post, left unchecked, can lead to incidents in public that often land people in jail.
Sadly, jails are filled with people who’s crime was “simply” that they could not handle their emotional selves.
Being called on unacceptable behavior in a safe setting is really a best case scenario. Being educated to understand boundaries and the limits to unacceptable behavior needs to be continuously reinforced with kindness and compassion. Tough love. Over time, it will sink in.
As a person who has been a long time BP I am finally learning that healthy STRATEGIES for coping are essential and need to be put into practice when the mind is in a healthier place; so that when the we are in an episode there is a personal resource to reference as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not.
There is a corrolary to this behavior – what if the guy in the group – once his behavior was brought to his attention – turned angry and exhibited threatening or violent action? I’m afraid that many non-bipolar people believe the “stigma” of irrationality that sticks like glue to anyone with a mental illness.
Though most of us with bipolar would appreciate being told to watch our actions and try to retreat from hostile/bizarre actions, it is not so easy to tell who will become abusive/violent, and who will not. It’s a good thing that man didn’t turn on you PHYSICALLY when you upbraided him.
This is just my “take” on similar situations. Sometimes in social situations (mainly with my therapist), I will turn hostile for no apparent reason, and then apologize and things will turn around. Bipolar, being a “mood disorder,” is not always easy to control. I have NO supporter besides my psychiatrist and therapist, who I see 1 time every 3 weeks for the first, and twice a month for the last. Therefore, I have to be the “controlling” element in my own actions. Sometimes, this is VERY difficult, so I stay in my apartment until the “mood” passes.
As always, thank you, Dave, for your honesty and willingness to help ALL of us. Big hugs to all bipolar survivors and those who love us. May God bless you real good.
Hi Dave, I agree with you, I have Bipolar Disorder myself. I’ve had it all
my life and was diagnosed only 3 years ago. I HATE it when I go into an
episode because I feel So Hopeless and afterwards I feel SO ashamed and
Hurt because I know I have said or done things to hurt those I really care
about. And I feel Embarrased, to say the least!
My Problem is this, My Husband doesn’t understand Bipolar and doesn’t
seem to care. He thinks I use it for an excuse to get attention. That I don’t
really need all those Meds. Therapists etc. It’s just an extra expence. He
has a fit whenever I have to get my meds refilled. (“We won’t be able to
do anything else or You won’t be able to see your therapist because You had to get your meds!) He has threatened to call our Pastor or my Therapist when I have an episode but He has Never followed through. I am waiting for my attorney to get disability for me so it will help us with the expenses entailed with all this.I haven’t been able to work for 2 yrs. I am also Hypo Thyroid and Rapid Cycle along with having mixed episodes so I admit it is harder to control. I have found another Pychiatrist that I believe I’m going to like. I’ve only seen him once,but I was encouraged by the way he
talked to me. (Straight Forward. He didn’t try to cut me off) He listened to
me and didn’t treat me like a Peon! Naturally My husband is not happy that I have to drive 70 some miles, but like you state,Dave Find the right Drs.
He started me on Carbamazeapine and I really feel it’s helping some.
I still need the other meds though, BUT,(And this is something the rest of you might find informative!) the Carbamazeapine IS on the Pharmacy’s $4 list at my HYVEE and WALMART! The Brand name is TEGRETOL.
Oh, By the way Dave I am in the process of starting a Bipolar Support Group in My area. As currently there is nothing of that Kind here. Wish me
luck! I am Nervous but excited! My Therapist is Really behind me on this so I have His support. I wish all the rest of you the Best.
hi dave any everyone. i have bypolar 1 and also manic depression. put the 2 together and it is twice ans bad. i keep my bp under control most of the time until someone really pisses me off then i go off the deep end. i wish i had someone to help me when i do this but my boyfriend does not want to know anything about bp and isnt willing to learn about it. he thinks that it is all a mind game and blames it on me not taking my meds every day which i do take it. wouldnt go with out it. i am also going through fibromyalgia and they both interact with each other. havent got the fibro under control yet but i am working on it. love the emails so keep doing what u are doing. i need all the info i can get to help understand more about these. thanks for what u do, jackie in alabama
Thanks for stating what we all need to hear. I am very concerned that as my mania continues, I will begin to do and say things that I would not ordinarily do. I’m giving my family permission to do whatever it takes to remove me from those situations and get me treatment. I really worry that people will judge me by my disorder but the truth is that I judge myself way too harshly. By reminding me of my ability to be responsible, you’ve helped me realize that I do have some measure of control – even if it’s just telling others that I don’t want to act like a jerk.
Dave I agree with you wholeheartedly. You shouldn’t worry about what people with bi-polar or others say about your attitude. Just because people are manic shouldn’t excuse their behaviour. It sounds like the facilitator in this meeting did not know what she was doing. She definitely should not allow a person in a manic state to stay in the meeting. His behaviour only upsets others and possibly endangers them. I have bi-polar II and if I had been in that meeting I would definitely would have said something to her. That is just not right. Before I was diagnosed I would go around getting mad at people and probably looking pretty “crazy”. I was always under control but realized later that I probably got more angry than I needed to. In a meeting with other people with bi-polar a person should feel safe and comfortable. When someone is allowed to rant and rave that is definitely not fair to the others in the room. Let’s hope this kind of thing doesn’t continue.
Thanks for sharing your stories, Dave. I can relate to it all. I am bipolar and my husband and children have had to deal with my mood swings and outbursts for years. Now my father is ill and we are taking care of him. I am now dealing with my fathers symptoms of bipolar, the mania, the depression, the outbursts. I find myself wanting to protect him from others and protect others from him. I have given my family permission to take steps to keep myself and others safe but my father doesn’t see anything wrong with the way he is going. My father is still resistant to treatment so I have been sharing as much information as I can with him to help turn him around.
Thank you for saying that! When I was living with my mom and my moods were erratic – if I was depressed she would get me (in a way that only mom’s can) to go out and join the living. If I was manic she would use her best judgement if I was able to go out without making a fool of myself or her – we lived in a really small town at the time. Now that I’m stable and have manic episodes once a year – that – I know what to do. And I’m still on close contact with my mom and one brother. My brother loves me enough to threaten to tie me to a chair if he thinks I’ll make a fool of myself in public. Either that or he is trying to get back at me for being mean to him when were were children.
that person was just rude inconsiderate and selfish. i go to my DOCTOR and say I am out of control when I get like that I am tired of embrassing myself and my family with bad behavior maybe he should be institutionalized when he acts like that
I suffer from bipolar my dr says for years i have seen after the birth of my son ( now 18 0 i loveed the email my mother is the one that doesn’t undertsand whe i am havinf a bad day. but all the help you can givr to me is greatly appreciated.
Thanks David! You are absolutely correct…there is no excuse for bad behaviour, if you know you have a disorder – get help. I read a post the other from MEREDITH that said that someone (I believe she used a plural) believes she is BP but that some psychiatrist told her she isnt’ and that the pain meds she is on make her seem odd…I am not directly quoting since I can’t find the post. A psychiatrist that sees a medicated person for 30 – 60 minutes once a month may not have a good example to go by – this from a psychiatrist. Trusted friends and family are critical for accurate evaluation. If it seems like everyone else is out of control, everyone is out to get you, or no one understands you, find help for yourself. Not everyone is BP.
DAVE YOUR MAIL WAS NICE TODAY I WILL BE INTRESTED IN THE JOB WHEN IT COMES UP.BYE LOVE U
Wow…..this has been my life for almost 20 years. My son is 32…bipolar and is also a drug addict. He has been out of prison for 8 months, after serving a 9 month drug conviction. He has just begun treatment with a Psychiatrist and is on Zyprexa for his manic mood swings. He is married, though separated and has 2 beautiful daughters. As Mom, I am continually being viewed as an enabler because I am there for my son. This gets really old because tough love is practiced almost daily where he is concerned. Money is not given because he cannot be trusted….but when opportunities arise (whether it be a rehab program or a new job) things that we feel will “jump start” him in a positive way, my husband and I have sometimes helped financially. He has completed rehab a few times but ultimately lost all jobs. I agree with the statement that “letting someone hit bottom” sometimes means six feet under for people with these types of issues. I am NOT willing to sit back and let that happen. He has attempted suicide before and we have been able to save him. I lost a daughter 2 years ago suddenly and will do ANYTHING to prevent that type of pain and loss. There has definitely been bad behaviour on his part! Out of control rages…some physical harm….mostly verbal. Wrecking cars….theft from family…..just horrible things. We have never ALLOWED those things…..they just happen. Police have been called, we have tried to have him committed. It’s not like we have sheltered him from his actions. We just want him to get better.
After reading what I have written, you would think I am talking about a monster. Jason is an awesome guy. He has everything that any guy would want….he is tall, dark and handsome, he is a natural athlete in any sport he attempts, he is funny and is always the life of any party. He is intelligent, he scored one point from genius on his SAT, he is fiercely loyal and has more friends than anyone I know. Now how does that happen? But when Jason is messed up or in an episode….watch out! He has absolutely NO FEAR! Road rage has been a common incident. I guess I say all this to say……how do you stop bad behaviour? We try to give him all the tools……but when someone starts drugs early in life and they don’t learn all the coping skills that they should….it’s almost like he is still 16. He desires more and because he is intelligent, he is more than aware of his lack of growth…it’s very disturbing to him and brings him much guilt and pain. He is making positive steps…..he has been on the meds for a little over a month now (sporadic though at times…..can anyone address that? How does it affect someone if they don’t take their meds EVERY DAY?) He is scheduled to see a separate counselor on Monday and once again has an awesome job opportunity that we may be willing to help with in a few weeks if he complies with Dr., meds and counseling. To all of you out there in the same boat….my prayers are with you. If anyone has any advice or comments…..please address them to “tink.”
Thanks for listening
Dave,
Amen! I agree with everything you said in your post. I find your website very informative and encouraging! I have two friends with bipolar disorder and their behavior has been at times puzzling and hurtful. Inappropriate behavior should never been tolerated for any reason whether a person has bipolar disorder or not. Thank you for your straightforward approach. You are appreciated!
Dear Dave,
i have Bi polar my son does as well, we are like night and day!! i take my meds faithfully!! On meds he does soooooooooo much better i can’t even begin to tell you how much better he does with mood stablelizers, and his focalin!!! Well off of his meds is a completly different story!! He is very very aggressive, destructive, tempermental, argumentative, extremely defiant, the list goes on and on, i KNOW it is a choice because he DOES not behave like this every where mainly at home. As far as that guy goes he SHOULD have been escourted OUT of the building IMMEDIATLY BI Polar is NOT an excuse to act in this mannor, i feel like knocking the crap out of people, cussing them out, amongst other things, however i do not!!! It IS i repete it IS a CHOICE, we DO have self control!!! When i go into mania i bounce off the walls and don’t know what to do with myself like many others do but i certantly do NOT treat other badly!! I AM a person living with Bi Polar as well as a couple of other mental illnesses and also a bi polar supporter so i know a thing or two about it and this is just my two cents on it.
I understand how you feel. I do not have any numbers to reach you. Many people use bp as way to get a way with trouble. Even people, that dont have it use the disoder. I found your site from other sites that linked me. I was looking for information for my wife. So she may understand me more. She has BPD, which has simular symptoms as bp. if you need to talk to someone. I could always use a support system. I feel that peopl react the way they do, is out of fear. Not understanding the conditons. this is tought. I feel you were in the right.
I am a 28 year old single parent of 6 boys under 10—My oldest which is diagnosed with Autism, my 9 year old diagnosed bi-polar and add/adhd schitzophrenia and all that wonderful stuff and my 7 year old who is diagnosed with add/adhd. Anyway my 9 year old who is diagnosed with bi-polar often tries to pull off doing crazy stufflike that when we go to the store, or anywhere I need to go. Having 6 little boys alone with you at the store is hard enough, even without the other issues my children are facing, but when my 9 year old begins his outrageous acts it gets me so mad. I know he is capable of controlling it because if we are somewhere that HE wants to be or he is doing something HE wants to do he will get it together pretty quickly. However when we are doing something he doesn;t particularly care for he will just appear totally whacked out and tends to totally humiliate me sometimes. His other brothers feed off of him so then there I am stuck with 5 children acting totally crazyand the baby screaming because I am not able to tend to him being that I am too busy twith the others trying to get them to behave—-It is NOT OK for the behavior to be overlooked because of a diagnosis. if that were the case I would have given up on my 10 year old when he was diagnosed with autism and he would have never had a chance in the world and would not be where he is today. You are right. Being Bi-polar is not an excuse to act like a crazy maniac. If more people would realize that and try to control that behavior instead of using it as an excuse there would not be so much of a problem. I think that people are so used to just getting away with acting like that that they will continue to do that kind of behavior as my child does to his advantage and until we step up and let them know that there are consequences to that kind of behavior maybe they would try to maintain themselves better. People tend to do whatever works. If acting crazy works then guess what until someone steps up and does not allow it to happen it is going to continue, THANKS
I totally concur. Having Bipolar disorder does not give you the green light to bad behavior.
My son has bipolar.He is 16. I will not take him certain places when he is worked up. I have seen him cry at home from embarrasement over his own behavior.When he is taking his medicine on a regular basis this will seldom happen.I love your emails! Thanks, Lory
Hi Dave, well I have recently been diagnosed with biopolar. I always knew that something was not right with me, but couldn’t place my finger on it. I find that your emails make me feel like I am going to be ok, that I just have to keep the faith and I have lots of support from my family.
I think that acting out in public is just not right or acceptable. I hope that in time I’ll be able to deal with things better.
this is a normal behavior for my grandchild’s mother. She assumes she can do what whenever she wants. My grandchild has been with me most of her life so she doesnt have to see the behavior. Her problem is she stops taking her medication ; she is just fine without it; then retreats to illegal drugs or alcohol and claims her medicine isnt working. It has just become a normal cycle around here. I am sick of it. At what age can you tell if a child has bipolar. I am afraid my 3 yr old grandchild does have this and then at what age can medication be started. Of course I have been told she wont take it because it’s dangerous. Is it or is the behavior that comes with this bipolar attitude more dangerous. Some states monitor people to make sure they take their meds not ours so we get the 2 am calls with her just going on to the point of taking the phone off the hook so no they dont have the right to behave like this in public or anywhere else for that matter. Some of us that deal with it 24/7 are sick of it. Sorry but I have only my experience to back up my attitude but I also have only one grandchild that should be protected from I am sorry but a crazy mom. This is real and it isn’t just going to magically go away so maybe she should. I sometimes just hope she would, sorry but 4 years of a nightmare and alot more to go isn’t in the real scheme of things.
Right on Dave. A support group should not enable bahavior which needs changing.
Dave-I heartily agree with you about the guy at the meeting who was going manic. It is not fair to the others at the meeting and it is unkind to allow a bipolar person who is manic to make a fool of themselves. My son is bipolar and so is my brother-both highly functional and on their meds! (Thank you God!) I recently had a milestone birthday and my son didn’t remember it. He is financially strapped so all I really wanted was a phone call or a card. When I talked to him about it he blamed his bipolar disorder. I told him that using bipolar to excuse bad, rude or inconsiderate behavior is not okay. Then I gave him suggestions to help him remember the birthdays of the important people in his life. My brother, who is one of my heroes-I am in awe of all he has to deal with each day while working full-time to support a family and remain stable- did remember my birthday! Hang in there Dave and focus on the positive messages you get.
I am the mother of a Biploar child and between his father, myself and his therapist we always tell him that he can never use his illness as an excuse for any bad behavior. We feel it is very important that he takes responsibility for his actions and that he tries very hard to make the right decisions when he is having a manic episode and gets very angry and wants to destroy property or hit someone. This has been a long, hard, exhausting journey so far,and we know it will be a lifetime one as well, but it is so encouraging to have the support from you. Take care and thank you! Tammy
To TINK – it sounds as if you and your husband have been enablers for your grown son. Of course, mixing street drugs, alcohol, and whatever legal drugs he’s taking does NOT make him more responsible.
At 32, you say he acts more like he’s 16. Has he ever lived on his own, or depended solely on you? I feel for you, because, as a bipolar survivor myself, I KNOW the “normal” periods just lull your supporter to think they have it all “under control.” Because he has extreme episodes, has he ever been HOSPITALIZED to get his medications regulated? I KNOW this is a harsh suggestion, but sometimes “tough love” is the only answer to a problem. Because there’s no cure – bipolar disorder is a LIFE-LONG illness, and has to be dealt with that way. You never KNOW when another episode will occur – WITHOUT meds and therapy to stabilize him.
You have my prayers and best wishes for the future. Sometimes learning HOW to live with your son is a struggle – but will become easier as time goes on.
Dave,
You are right to be upset about the persons behavior as well as the ambivilent response from the group. You are exactly right when you say that bipolar is not a pass for bad behavior. There are good reasons for meds and this is an excellent example.
What I think is that sometimes a manic episode hits you before you are aware of it and the others have just either grown used to his manic episodes or he is so menacing that they prefer to not deal with him. I am on a cocktail of meds that keep me fairly stable, but a little stress makes me manic, my daughter is on her way to stability but a little stress makes her manic and the same for my husband. I have known others who were manic and didn’t realize it until their supporters set them down and told them they were manic and anyone who deals with Bi-po manic episodes knows the person isn’t responsible for their actions. Some get mean, some just have extreme levels of energy and are highly irritable and so on. And the fact is that even though we receive proper treatment and counseling there is no way to predict a manic episode for sure, everyone is different. But they should never have allowed you to be threatened by this man.
Hey there … I saw your post on the disruptive guy and had to chat on it a bit. Seems I had the same experience a short while ago. I was chairing a meeting on Dual Diagnosis … Dual Diagnosis Anonymous …DDA. there was this guy in it that was being very disruptive and diffcult. I just put him on the spot over and over till he tired of being asked to tell us about what it was that he was interrupting the meeting with and he just got up and left. I thanked everyone else in the meeting for their patience and tolerance and asked them if I handled it OK. They said I did fine… enough for me. I really wanted ot handle it different as it was a very annoying and scary deal. Sorry it happened to you ….WooD!
Okay, Dave,
I have a whole different take on what you talked about in your e-mail today, specifically about the guy who you said was acting out.
Of course I agree that having a diagnosis of bipolar disorder doesn’t EXCUSE the “bad bahavior”. But, with the experience of having worked as a psychiatric nurse for ten years, I would rephrase (and reframe) the situation as you described it. I didn’t see or assess the person, but from the behavior you describe (loud talking, walking and circling around, disrupting the meeting and frightening some people, including you), what I would say is that the person was probably in an agitated manic state, and I would say that his bipolar disorder EXPLAINED his SICK behavior – NOT “excused” his “bad” behavior. Just as having diabetes EXPLAINS someone’s having a blood sugar level of 250 (“sick”, not “bad”).
You said that you tried to talk to the facilitator and others in the group, somehow expecting them to “DO something”. Now, Dave, you are an expert on bipolar disorder and manic episodes. What is it, exactly, that you would have them do? Should they approach the person, tell them that their behavior is inappropriate and unacceptable and for them to stop the behavior? If they’re in a manic episode, that will probably only further agitate them. Should the person be asked to leave? Maybe, and that may work, or it may further antagonize him. Should the police be called to remove the person? You and I both know the law; unless someone is a threat to himself or others, “acting out” isn’t against the law.
A person cannot be committed just because they’re “crazy”. I know, because I was certified to commit people, and I know what the criterium are. The person has to either have verbalized suicidal intent, homicidal intent, or have exhibited clear violent behavior.
The best thing would have been it that person had had a supporter who was knowledgable about bipolar disorder, who could try to convince the person that he needs help (see a psychiatrist for evaluation and take whatever meds are supplied, as well as see a therapist regularly). You and I both know how difficult that is to accomplish. There are ways to try, but you can’t make someone who doesn’t want help get the help. We cannot force anyone to take medications against their will. We can hospitalize them only if they’re suicidal, homicial, or are so psychotic that they can’t meet their own basic needs and are therefore a threat to themselves. That’s it. I know that yuo have information in your courses about how to persuade someone that they need help, and how to help them find that help, and I haven’t read your courses (can’t afford them), but I think that even you will agree that, even if you follow all the steps, a very large portion of people who are mentally ill will refuse to get help.
Also, maybe that person IS taking their meds; sometimes a person with bipolar disorder will have breakthrough episodes while being treated. They may need, from time to time, either a change in their meds or an adjustment of the dosage of the meds.
It’s a difficult situation for all involved when someone loses control and acts in ways that are inappropriate, causing others to be uncomfortable or even frightened. But, most of the time, options aimed at stopping the behavior of someone who isn’t in touch with reality very well aren’t going to be successful.
I would suggest a different attitude: Instead of becoming “mad” because a person is acting “mean”, maybe it would be more helpful for all involved
to adopt an attitude of “compassion” for someone who is “sick”.
Just a thought…
Trevor was upset because he felt that most people with a mental illness WOULD change their attitude/behavior if they COULD. Even having a resistance to treatment is a part of the disease – I think you know that from personal experience. Rahn, who says he is a peer mentor for a bipolar support group, outlined many of the steps they would take in a situation such as the one you described, but the bottom line was that, sometimes, any and all actions just don’t work.
Bipolar disorder IS a disease, and the behavior exhibited by one with this diagnosis are symptoms of that disease. It doesn’t excuse that behavior, but it does help to explain it.
Thank you!
Sue
Dear Dave:
Me again! Just wanted to wish you a fun walk with Anna.
I think you asked (yesterday?) about when babies start to talk and walk?
They all start at different times; babies will begin to “babble” before 6 mos, and usually say single words (“mama”, “dada”, “no!”, etc.) before they’re a year old. As far as walking goes, the median age is 12 months, but some walk as early as 10 months, some as late as 14 months or even a little older, and there’s no problem if they’re “late” walkers or talkers.
They should be walking by age 2 (and putting some words together); if not, the pediatrician may want to do some more evaluation.
Dave, I totally agree that someone with Bipolar Disorder who is “manifesting” should not be allowed out in public. Shame on those supporters & facilitators who wimp out when it comes to standing up to the disorder. Your Mom got it right when she gave you permission to prevent her from embarrassing herself. I have Bipolar Disorder myself & it is a full-time job trying to appear normal. Consequently I stay home a lot. I read your daily emails & appreciate the support. Thanks so much. From Consie.
Hi
This reminds me of the movie “Helen Keler”
Hi Dave
thank you for your e-mail today – I have always believed in the stance that bipolar disorder is NO EXCUSE for bad behaviour, and made this fact quite clear to my partner. His rude, selfish behaviour cost him his previous 2 jobs, which he was politely asked not to come back to. His behaviour is slowly but surely changing in very positive ways the past few months. Just sometimes I have to remind him that his condition is no excuse for his rudeness of selfishness towards me and other people. I take a quite firm stance on this viewpoint. Nobody needs to take abuse from anyone, bipolar or not, period.
I have a 13yo son with BiPolar. I find it very difficult to take him out in public due to his behavior. In any given day, he is extremely angry 80% of it. The morning is the worst, before he has any medication. I sometimes wonder how I’m going to handle it. There are so many times I don’t want to wake up in the morning and deal with his behavior. But I will press on and continue to try and get more support. Thanks Dave for your wonderful, insightful emails. I read them every day. Kellie-WI
Dear Mr. Olive: Thank you so much for the info on Bp. I am a widow and have a close friend who is 74 yr. old. I just love him to pieces. He is bp.
He has been off his med’s for about 3 weeks now. I have had no contact w/ him for these 3 weeks now. I miss him so much and want to contact him but we play bridge together at a club we both belong to. He called me a “bitch” like hi x-wife, and other mean things at the bridge club in front of all the members there ,. which was 16 people.
I am afraid to call him or go to his home to see him as when you try to talk w/ him and talk w/ him he just says “stop,” “stop, “stop. He just continue’s to say bad thing to me. I try to stay calm and not raise my voice but he just will not stop and listen.
He will not physically hurt me or touch me, he never get phycial, just his mouth spits out vinum.
Should I wait till he get back on his med’s to contact him? I heard him tell several people he is going to get back on his’s med’s but when I am around him he does not appear to be taking his med’s.
I have told him on many ocassions that I think he uses his bp as an excuse to get by with the nasty way he talks and treats other people including myself. He just looks at me and grins. I do agree that bp is not an excuse to say and do means things.
We have been seeing each other for about 3 yrs. and he has done so well for so long. I hope to contact him in the near future as I have been to his doctors w/ him on several occassions and hope he lets me back in his life so Ican go w/ him again to his Dr’s. He lies to his Dr.s if I don’t go w/ him to tell them the truth about his condition.
Sorry, did not mean to talk so long but wanted you to know I appreiate all the info I am receiving from you. I totally agree with you. I hope to relay so of your info to him if he will let me.
thanks so much;
Hi Dave,
I agree with you bipolar should not be an excuse for bad behavior. Just b/c someone has bipolar does not mean they have a right to abuse ….. so i am right with you on this point. 🙂 Once again, thank you for all you do.
peace and many blessings,
Filiz
I thought the perspective given by Sue in OH was very insightful and I agree with her. Although no one has the right to abuse anyone else, I do think that those exhibiting the behavior described are suffering from the bad effects of his/her illness. I think that the person needs help and mostly compassion. If we ignore the person, hoping he/she will go away or get angry with him/her, we are not at all being helpful, understanding or compassionate.
I think you did right by saying something so many people uses their disabilities to say it is ok i am this way but they should try to reframe from acting the way they do i am one of those that is looking for way to help me and my family to deal with the problems and help us to live with it and not fall back on it as an excuse for why we do the things we do.
Dave et al,
I agree that no one should think they must put up with the BP behaviour of someone else. But it’s their choice. In this instance they have control of themselves if not the person with BP.
As for the person with BP, I think you ask too much. The whole issue with someone in an episode is that they so often don’t, cannot, think rationally. Their behaviour can seem perfectly reasonable to them … at that time. It’s only when they come out of that state of mind hat they realise what they’;ve done, the consequences of what happened, and they can be mortified by that … and as you know, being mortified is an emotion, and negative emotions c an trigger a BP episode! So, it doesn’t help if your BP supporter gets angry and judgemental in your face over something you have limited, if any, control over. It’s just the same as the “pull yourself together” cr#p that so many of us have had to put up with in the depressed stages of the disorder. Streuth! Do they think we want to be in that state, that we’ll sometimes give our lives to escape feeling that way? That if it was just as simple as “pulling your self together” that we’d not do exactly that? Being manic, or hypomanic is as just as controlling as he depressed phases.
That said, the person with BP may be able to exercise SOME measures of control, like doibng all they can so they don’t trigger an episode in the first place, and taking their medication when they are rational. But that doesn’t always work – the BP can bite you whatever you do. The BP is like a dog that like to let you think you are in control but will occasonally turn and bite you just to let you know who is the real boss. Surviving BP is, in my opinion, recognizing that and working round it, to make the very best of the times when you are reasonably functional.
I agree with your opinion concerning the gentleman’s rudeness he exhibited at your meeting, and I want to be your administrative assistant. Please advise me how and when to apply. My shipping address is:
Jan Garcia
5788 Ted Trout Drive
Lufkin, Texas 75904-7450
Thanks.
I do not think it the bad behaviour as such but more the fact that the person seems to refuse to do anything about it. Bipolar untreated can cause behaviour that we can do nothing about …. but we must first admit we have a problem and then bite the bullet and get help.
Prior to diagnosis I thought my behaviour was normal… I figured everyone else was slow and incompetant… but other people were apparently scared of me.
You must also remember that a persons personality depicts who they are – with or without Bipolar – and not all of us exhibit bad behaviour.
Dear Dave: Thank you so much for your gift of keeping us all informed about bipolar disorder. This is such a relief !!! I am very grateful. Both my husband and one of my dearest friend are dealing with this. Both of them are highly intelligent, well educated people who suffer greatly, but are improving on medication and the use of Avatar(R) exercises that also help with attention, will, forgiveness, etc. This results in a much higher quality of life for everybody. I also find these two have a great deal more compassion for everyone else and an amazing capacity for love. Thank you so much for your effort. Marika
I am glad that your mom has given you the go ahead to keep her from making poor decisions, that will only cause more problems in the long run. I am very picky and choosy about what I will and won’t do with my disorder. I have only been verbally aggressive in one situation and it was a time when my medication trials were underway. I was living proof that medications can have adverse affects instead of effectiveness. It took years to get my meds right, and from time to time they still need adjusting. I have always been faithful about taking meds and seeing my doctors regularily…still there is no cure, or exact science.
People with Alzheimer’s are better tolerated than anyone with BP…people need to open their eyes and see there is a similar correlation. Just as Alzheimer’s are forgetful and impulsive without a cure (believe me some of them are very violent especially in latter stages of the disease)…BP can be just as disabling and progressive. Not every person has the same symptoms as they label in the BP category, so no BP is equal to another.
A few weeks ago a very stressful family situation occurred and set me back. There are certain triggers in life that will never be resolved through medications or therapy…that is life. I had an episode as a result, but I had to gather myself and attend a wedding that I really knew I should not have gone too…but it was my sister’s so how could I back out of that. My family hasn’t a clue that when family issues are causing episodes the person with BP should not be held to the highest standard. It is a time when R&R is essential, and getting help if the rest doesn’t do the trick. My childhood was horrible and those scars never heal they just get buried till something triggers the emotional stimuli.
I read an interesting article about BP and it clearly stated that people with BP have brain damage, parts of the hippocampus do not function as it should. Which causes all of the odd behaviors…when a person says they can’t help themselves…………BELIEVE IT!! In some situations they can but there are times when a trigger has the upper hand and rational is missing. BP is not an excuse it is a real medical condition that requires medication and time to recover if an episode has occurred.
Supporters you are the lucky ones….believe me! Yes it may be frustrating and maddening, but the sufferer is wayyyyyyyyy worse off! They don’t want to disappoint others or make poor decisions, but what can not be fixed will remain broken.
An earlier post by MADGRANDMA, talked about medicating a 3 year old… shoot…. 3 year olds do act immature it is all part of an extended terrible 2’s. I have 3 boys. Unless the child is a threat to herself or others medicating should be last resort not first choice to make the caregiver’s life easy. Children’s brains are still developing until they are 21. If the child has been exposed to a parent with BP they are very vulnerable to repeat actions they have learned, they are little sponges absorbing everything they see and hear!! If anything the child should see a therapist for post traumatic stress disorder, and the caregiver should learn coping strategies.
I hesitate to judge the gentleman in this case because I do not know the entire situation, only what is perceived from your perspective. I have bipolar disorder and I understand what it is like to feel like I cannot control my outbursts. However, i must agree it is NOT an excuse. I must pay the consequences for choices made during an episode. I feel that during a support meeting it is up to the meeting facilitator to implement a plan for dealing with such situations and the members there. If everyone had made it clear it was unacceptable he would have been more likely to stop or at least to leave. Before I was diagnosed I could not understand my own outbursts or why I was having them, so I wasn’t very successful at controling them. Understanding and education have helped me to identify the behaviors, making it easier to control the outbursts. If I can’t control it I try to stay away from others while I am in that state.
Thanks Dave. It is good to hear poor behavior is NOT ok!
No one regardless of what the condition is should be allowed to act inappropriately in a public setting. This can escalate into somebody getting seriously hurt, injured or possibly going into an episode from experiencing this sort of an outburst. When you shared this it reminded me of the incident that happen on the Marts bus in Atlanta, where the young lady threaten the elderly lady and no one stop her. Luckily this was recorded and she was forced into treatment for her own sake. Unfortunately, there were no professional people there to handle the situation and fortunate for the elderly lady she didn’t render a response. But, in a setting such as you described, those people in charged at that centered; you would think should have be better equipped to deal with his disturbing behavior.
Did he realize what he was doing? or was he so far gone that he had no control over handling his condition? This is where the supporter comes in to try to snap them back into reality. Sometimes this means by any means necessary to help them help themselves. What one needs to know is how to do this which is the trick. Is it a calming word, a loving touch, a visual vision, what? I believe that’s where you have helped lots of people with your case studies. So I would encourage people to get this specialized knowledge you have compiled and take it from there.
Help is out there, you just have to know how and where to get it. That is:
http://www.bipolarcentral.com. Just a wealth of information.
You David, are a Godsend.
Many continuous blessings.
Definitely bad behavior is unacceptable…however to address why the group did not doing anything….Group behavior that condones seriously wrong behavior, even as far as a group witnessing someone getting killed, and not doing anything about it is known in Social Psychology as “The Bystander Affect”. Do a web search on it…so this means this behavior of a group is typical, and explains why you may see it happen again. It’s a very weird phenomenon.
I’m preparing a blog and website for some of the “why’s” that go unanswered – more of a social as well as biologicall look at bipolar – not to supplant your website Dave – it’s marvelous – just give answers from a different perspective in hopes of further support.
I only recently signed up for your newsletters, and just within the last week began to realize that my husband is bipolar type 2. He has horrible outbursts of anger and rage, but only in private, and I am always the target. He says that he can’t control himself when he gets like that, but obviously he can, or it wouldn’t only happen in private. We have appointments with psychologists and psychiatrists coming soon, I only hope they are soon enough to stop another episode. He says awful, hateful things to me when he is in a manic state, and I am trying my hardest to forget about and forgive the things he said to me in his last episode. I am so tired of dealing with this, and feel so very alone right now. I will continue to try to get him the help he needs, though, because he deserves a normal, healthy life.
As for your goddaughter, give her about 3-4 months. The second year of life is so amazing and fun!! Enjoy her!
Whoa-sorry, it’s “Bystander Effect”, not Affect” – in case anyone noticed and looks it up! Sorry.
Further to my last post and that of Sue in OH, according to my pDoc, no medication currently available is really effective against “switching” moods. I don’t mean “rapid cycling”, which I understand can take place over a number of days, but switches of moods than can happen over a few minutes, or even in one minute. (They are the worst because one can be over brimming with enthusiasm and passion about something, often enthusing others as you do, when …. suddenly tears well up from no where and you want to cry.) The best that can be done, she told me, is it to try to flatten the extremes of those moods with a “mood stabiliser”, such as Lamotrigine or Lithium. But as Sue in OH was saying, there can be “break throughs” even here. So, you cannot plan for these “switches” and one’s supporter may not be on hand to help … because our supporters are not glued to us everywhere we go. Why, mine is out opf the country for half the year! And this assumes there IS a supporter in the first place. Not everyone has ever had one, and many of those who did, their supporters have long gone because they couldn’t stand living with someone who is BP.
(There’s a question for you. What should people with BP do if they don’t have a supporter??)
HI I LOVED YOUR E-MAIL AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH ALL YOUR ISSUES, ABOUT THE LATE PHONE CALLS AND BI-POLAR EPISODES… AS IAM A GRATEFUL RECOVERING ADDICT AND I HAVE WORKED IN THE PSYCHIATRY FIELD FOR A FEW YRS. I WORKED HANDS ON IN THE INPATIENT PSYCH WARD IN BROOKLYN NEW YORK AS A MENTAL HEALTH WORKER… I LEARNED ALOT THROUGH MY EXPERIENCE AND ALSO READ MY SISTERS PSYCH 1 COLLEDGE BOOK WHEN I WAS HIRED.. I LOVED MY JOB, BUT I LIVE IN LAS VEGAS NOW, WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR YOU IF THERE IS AN OPENING, PLEASE LET ME KNOW FOR IAM AVAILABLE, THANK YOU, RESPECTFULLY LUCY
thanks dave that was a bost i dont alway know what to do in those times tina
thanks again dave
dear Elisabeth-i know exactly what you are going through. my position is so similar its scary.
bad behavior is no excuse but what if the bad behavior is only seen by certain people, that its hidden from society and friends etc. and when in company the person comes across as the most wonderful person ever. but behind closed doors this other person emerges that only you(meaning i see)? and that everybody would think you were stark raving mad if you even mentioned that there was a problem?
i am always the target.
I read similar article also named Update and Bipolar disorder is NOT an excuse for this, and it was completely different. Personally, I agree with you more, because this article makes a little bit more sense for me
Hi Dave,
I was with someone who is 40 years old, knows that he has Bipolar and DOES NOT take medication for it. HE KNOWS that he needs sleep (for fear of being moody), HE KNOWS he needs to eat right (health reasons, that’s obvious), HE KNOWS he shouldn’t drink (for fear of being out of control), HE KNOWS he shouldn’t watch scary movies (for fear of thinking bad thoughts or acting on them). He also knows that he needs help and used that as a ploy to get me back by asking me to help him. I set him up with a Psychologist but he was on a high and did not tell the truth. Life is not okay the way it is right now because the guy that I cared about did not take medication, therefore was caught with his pants down on several occassions.
You previously said that Bipolar is not an excuse for bad behaviour. It’s even worse when the guy knows that he his Bipolar and proceeds to go through life pretending that he isn’t therefore, hurting EVERYONE in his path.
There is one more thing I would like to tell you…I’m pretty sure I opened Pandora’s Box by calling a guy off his phone. Ever since then, he has kinda snapped! He dumped his best friend and has gestured to kill me on a couple of occassions. One day, I was doing the dishes, he was cutting some kinda food or something. When I turned around, he was looking down at the knife he had pointed in my backside, with a weird smirk on his face. It might’ve been the same night when we were laying in bed and he said something about killing me and hanging me up on one of those hospital curtain rods (the one around each bed) where he could pull me around whenever he wanted to see me or vice versa. He also has RLS (Restless Legs Syndrome and EVERY symptom of a Sociopath). His RLS keeps him awake at night and he gets up and punches the wall, but he said if he sees me sleeping, he gets even more angry. One night he propped up his pillow in between us (like a barrier). I’m not sure if it was because he didn’t want to see me sleeping OR he didn’t want me to see him. I don’t know why, but I woke up in the middle of the night, peeked over the pillow and he was flat on his back, in a semi-conscious state and his head was flipping back and forth, right to left quite briskly (it looked pretty freaky, kinda like exorcist). I asked him if he was okay, then I proceedsed to massage his head to relax him. I’ve recently talked to a Mental Health Worker and was told to call the police. The police would then pick him up and take him to the hospital for assessment.
What do you think about this?
Tammy
To TAMMY – First of all, the next time he even THINKS about harming you, much less points a knife in your direction – DO call 911. The police have people who can come to the home and assess the situation. You do NOT have to live as if you’re “walking on eggshells” with this guy. To me, he sounds DANGEROUS.
I have Restless Leg Syndrome, and sometimes take meds for it. But – I DON’T punch the walls! By all means, protect YOURSELF. I know you love him, but getting the care he so desperately needs right now is of utmost importance.
Good luck, and may God bless you real good.
Hello
I have witnessed my son losing control in restaurants and in my home.I bought his dinner and felt very angry that he acted so ungrateful. If the waitress dosen’t understand his order (he is into organics)or if you say anything about his moods he jumps up pounds the table and leaves. I leave him out there and eventually he comes back in after he has had time to think. Once when we were out of town I told him to get in and eat his food or we were leaving now. The less sympathy I gave him and the more direct I was about not accepting his behavior the better. He was acting like a child and he was 23 at the time. He was acting fine until he felt challenged or questioned about what he wanted to eat.It’s like Jekyll and Hyde but I understand the sickness more now. Most of the time he is humble and apologetic but he knows i don’t go along with bad behavior and it was a long time before i treated him to dinner again.I won’t put up with it. He works 6-7days a week now doing cleaning and maintenance at a fish facility in Wa. He is doing okay but still has depressios he fights with. Take Care
i take all my meds regularly. even so i recently had a manic episode in which i was highly delusional. yes i dont want to look like an idiot and intimidate people etc but when in that state i truly believe that what is in my mind is true. any action from others to tell me this is not true is seen as them collaborating with whatever powers may be. i dont want to behave this way, i dont do it deliberately. i do everything i can to stop these things happening, take my meds etc. its NOT an ‘excuse’ for bad behaviour, but its not a ploy for attention or me ‘just being bad’
You were not being mean. This is how my husband acts and no-one stops him because he uses and everyone else uses the bipolar as an excuse. It was probably him at the meeting. He can be very tricky though and act like Jekyll and Hyde very well so he can control it when he really wants to, but most of the time he says “i want to abuse and amuse”, “that’s what i exist to do, amuse and abuse”.
I think we just don’t know how to handle a lion out of the cage without getting hurt. I have to protect my son and myself from this all of the time. Now we are healing. Healing from the trauma of the experiences for a mother and child from being around someone so manic and mean is a long journey.
But I recently learned in therapy that it does not matter what mental illness someone has, abuse is not acceptable. Bad behavior is not acceptable. People can control their bipolar by taking meds properly. We were told forever that it was the illness, blame it on the illness. That was wrong and made us abused alot longer than we should have been. I can’t tell you how many times I had to take my son to the ER for medical problems related to stress and anxiety from his father’s mania.
Hi Dave,
This is in response to your post about people complaining that your articles are too negative. Do you know what?
I still love them! I am in the healing process after a dear friend of mine who had BPD committed suicide. Even though she is now gone, the hurt and the memories of her actions and rages still haunt me. I find reading your articles very validating, reassuring to me, as well as comforting and soothing.
Before my friend offed herself, I frequently blamed myself for her ways because she had me believing it was me who was causing her to be the way she was. When I realized that she might have undiagnosed BPD, I subscribed to your email list and have been blessed with the comfort and validation of your emails!
Please David, don’t let these complaints stop you from doing what you’re doing! I for one, of many, I am sure, fully appreciate what you are sending us, and I am sorry that I haven’t taken the time to thank you on this as often as I should! Your works mean a lot to me and I am sure a whole lot of other people as well!
God Bless, David, and if there is any other way in which we can thank you or show our appreciation, let me know!
Sincerely,
Patty Schlossberg
ps, I realize what i wrote is addressed to the bpd issue and it is posted on the bipolar, but where can I find the bpd site to post this? I dont want to offend anyone here.
thank you Ruth – my husband acts like I make this up and complains about the cost of the dr, the meds, the ins. I ask him if he would rather me be off everything and in a hospital somewhere or stable here. I am not sure what is choice would really be!
Today I was reading about how if someone really wants to be responsible for their behavior, even if they have mental illness of any kind, than they will see to it that the medications are the right ones by asking family and friends “does this medication make me seem better to you?” when they do not have insight into knowing it themselves. An alcoholic only gets better when they try to control their behavior. A bipolar sufferer only gets better when they control their behavior, their mouth, their anger and rages and so forth. And until they can be around people in such a way that is not acting in such a way as to be the center of attention and sap the energy out of every special occasion (funny how they usually think they are the life of the party when it is just the opposite), they won’t get invited to weddings and festivities and holidays and parties and special occasions. People have only a few special days in their lives and they don’t want them ruined by a problematic parent or sibling or friend that will not act within the norms of accetable behavior. The only way to affect change is to hold someone that behaves in an antisocial way (as does someone with bipolar much of the time when not medicated properly), responsible for their behavior.
Dave, I totally agree with you. My daughter has bipolar disorder and sometimes my husband doesn’t want to be too hard on her with her bad behavior because he is afraid that she might hurt herself. Unfortunately, most of her manic episodes are at night and she uses me as a “punching bag” verbally. I’m the “weak link” due to having MS. Just found this site and I’m grateful for any help.
My wife of 25 years was diagnosed BP I w/psychosis during a hospital stay of ten days approximately 1.5 yrs. ago. She has been on a second manic power toot for a little over one month. She sleeps in three hour spurts & acts like an idiot. I have secured her check books, credit cards, car keys, drivers license, passport, cell phone, etc., etc. Boy, is she angry about not being able to drive the car-car. She treats me like the human equivalent of bat guano, says I’m the crazy one, abuse her, & is going to have me imprisoned for stealing her stuff. I am 62, a retired judicial executive, and desire a peaceful life, but have no qualms about calling BS on her acting out in public. I would not physically abuse her, but certainly would not hesitate to either firmly escort her from a public place or else leave her in a situation that would result in her being arrested for disturbing the peace.
She apparently “fired” her psychiatrist & is not taking the supplemental anti-psychotic to mitigate the mania (Risperdal). She thinks she is a poster girl for Lamictal (100mg/day).
I intend to watch her crash & burn … then go to the hospital again. Once she stabilizes, I will require that she grant me irrevocable medical & legal power of attorney. If she doesn’t, I intend to divorce her so she can be free & become a homeless street person. Seems a shame — all for being unwilling to take a freaking pill.