Dear David
I am in a new relationship with an amazing man who has been diagnosed with bipolar about 5 years ago. I am worried about the violent episodes a bipolar patient may experience, not that he has shown any. Is my fears grounded. I am willing to support him through everything, but being violent towards me or my child will not obviously break up the relationship immediately.
Please could you give me some advise?
regards
mariska

Dear David

I joined your sight after looking through the internet for some kind of support or understanding I can get at home in private, as I have suffered with this apparent ‘DISORDER’ all of my life, i didn’t know at first not for years, just kept on being told to sort myself out and stop being so miserable and moody, this was from around 9 years old.

The thing is I lived in the UK born and bred in London and where I come from mental disorders are swept under the carpet.

After several suicide attempts (in my teenage and twenties) self harm, promiscuous behavior, drug addiction, alcohol abuse and oh yeah complete self loathing, i ended up getting several mental health assessments, which purely informed me it was the drugs or the drink (which by the way I can and have put down at will) I WAS not drinking at 9 years old but the problem was still there, substance abuse is a symptom of any mental health disorder, no one I mean NO ONE could give an utter shit for anyone suffering with ANY kind of mental disorder. I have in the past been diagnosed as clinically depressed, manically depressed, to have a multi personality disorder etc but never bipolar, until now..

I find it very strange reading what you American cousins have to say and write and how you supposedly put it in the main stream for it to be accepted as it should be in a perfect world but it’s not.,

I live now in the Canary Islands, I have a partner a good one now after a very abusive relationship where he tried to knock it out of me…..

The only thing I will say about you supporters of us Freaks! is that YOu do not KNOW what it is like, even though you have lived with it, for you through your mother and for anyone else for whomever it is they choose to stand beside.

I did not ask to be this way, I have not expressed an interest in being saved from myself, my partner had to fight for me to even agree for us to be in a relationship as I told him from the start, YOU WILL NOT HANDLE THIS…. but apparently he felt he could.

In the midst of all this, I have been told he can’t cope on occasion and I then feel guilty, that is why I did not want to get involved, sometimes its to hard coping with my own feelings and then I have added pressure of my partners as this problem can sometimes make him depressed also and even when I consider myself to be having a NORMAL stressful day as anyone would, it is not allowed to be, it must be bipolar…

We do not have just this one thing about us and we can be relatively ordinary people at times, so please as a supporter of this troublesome mental health disorder, can YOU also consider the REAL people living inside it and not just the problems arising from it.

I know that your intentions are good ones but honestly sometimes good intentions are a pain in the arse!

YOU do not know what it’s like on the inside, no matter how much of it you have observed and stop trying to have all the answers, I appreciate your concern but PLEASE sometimes to help you have to back OFF……!!!

Jaini.. x

Thanks for this information David, I work for someone who has in my opinion (I had a grandmother with BiPolar) Bipolar. (Undiagnoised) She has an older lady living with her that deals with episodes..and is always asking me how she should handle certain situations…You have given me many different ways that have worked with trying to deal with this person. So thanks again for the information you put out there.

Mr Oliver,
I have a wife that is about to divorce me and I believe it may be because of her being bipolar. I have read some of the info you have written on your website and would like to talk to you about my situation. I read your story about your mom and can relate to some of it. I also read where you cover areas in your books and possibly sessions about how to get a bipolar loved one to see a doctor voluntarily or in worse case situations, involuntary. I don’t have money to be buying books nor do I realy have the time because time is one of the issues. We’ve been seperated almost a year now and the divorce will be processed within a few days if I don’t do something. I’d like to talk to someone that is knowledgeable enough to let me know if she is bipolar and what to do about this situation if she is bipolar. Please call me at 757-576-2520 (cell)
Thanks, Ben Erwin

Honesty is the best policy. However, I have been afraid to address certain issues. I’ve been fearful of the response from my friend whom I believe is bipoar. His family have given me some history (not knowingly) along with his behavior that leads me to believe that he is bipolar. He told me once that he had been diagnosed as having bipolar. However, he says that he is not. I have told him about some behaviors and he firmly says he does not remember doing those things. It’s really stressful, but I do love him. Should I be completely honest, even though he denies that he has bipolar? Please advise and I will let you know the outcome. THANKS!

Hell no, I won’t discuss it with him. For one thing, his voilent temper tantrums are always MY fault. I made him act that way. It will trigger another attack and then, oh yes, he does’nt remember.

Virg,
I am right there with you. My addict/bp husband has announced he lied to all of his therapists, psychiatrists, etc and was trying to cover up how much he was drinking and they misdiagnosed him. Mind you, he was diagnosed over 10 years ago, but it has always been their mistakes. He is able to justify his actions as excuses for his bad behavior. He doesn’t trust the doctors because all they want to do is lock him up and throw pills at him. He doesn’t need pills, he needs to be creative again and happy again, and fun again (his words NOT MINE)
He has worked wonders trying to get me to sign on board that I am the one that is sick, not him. I am the trigger. I am the problem. I am the provoker. If it wasn’t for me, he would be doing great. When I mention to him that we should dissolve the marriage or at the very least separate until we can both get “well”, he panics. He wakes me up all night long to complain about how I don’t meet his needs, he is suspicious, he is jealous and insecure, he is angry, he is all over the place – and mean as all get out. But, when it is convenient to him, that is all just his bp talking or his medicine “messing with him”.
I am tired of it, too. I have tried to be a “good” supporter, but his insanity is killing me, slowly but surely. The anger and bitterness has taken over my compassion to see his pain.
I hate to rant and i understand there is hope, but today I am tired of it all.

Jaini,

I first of all want you to know other people with bipolar do understand you. Dave is doing a fine job of helping us that do have it. He does try his best to understand and I think he probably understands it better than most people with out it. No, he can’t know what it is like actually having it, but he does understand what we go through is difficult and that it is no picnic by any means. He is doing more than anyone I know to help us.

I have had bipolar since childhood and didn’t get diagnosed until I was 36. I am 43 now and have had 4 years of real stability. The thing is we need medication to balance our brain chemistry. You didn’t mention if you had a doctor you were working with or if you were on medication. But the thing is it was impossible for me to manage my bipolar episodes without medication. You are welcome to post on the Bipolar Forum at: http://www.bipolarinnercircle.com/phpbb3/index.php That is where you can post questions and get answers from someone with bipolar, me and sometimes other people post there too.

If you do not have a doctor, and are not on medication, it will be difficult if not impossible to manage or control your moods. I couldn’t do it for 36 years. That is when I started getting help. It took a long time to find a good doctor, which I found when I was 39 and have been stable since then. I don’t have major episodes anymore. I have mini ones compared to what I used to have to deal with and am in a good mood most of the time now. Are you open to seeing a psychiatrist?

Wishing the best for you,
And knowing how it feels exactly!
Bob

dave
talking to my b/f just pisses him off again and it just causes him to yell and eventually saying he doesnt want to talk about it. im working on staying possitive which usually helps keep him in a good mood but i shouldnt have to suck his ass! thats not part of the deal i mean ppl have bad days but i cant bc it makes him freak out or have an episode . i definately cant talked about family or bills or or especially US. i just feel like we will neverbe able to ahve the real life together. our life depends on his personality at the moment. he could treat me like crap or he could be a sweetheart. it just depends but he s very unpredictable! he cold go days w/o sleep. and he just thinks its normal u cant get it in his head deap enough that he has a problem

hes just not the type to talk about feelings

i am in a relationship with a bp person…every story has some familar thought… for me..after an episode which starts during..i really start to resent the person and hold a lot of resentment.i feel as if all my understanding and all my patience of 4 years just goes out the window..
beaing cheated on because she feels neglated (which the neglect comes from the anger and resentment i have towards her from the episodes.. it just feels like a vicious cycle and there is never any catching up.im mad at myself for falling in love with somewith with bp.. why were’nt we given warnings …”you are about to enter the world of the unknown,get ready for a wild rollercoaster ride that you just cant get off” well 4 years later and i still dread having the talks..is she going to go manic or is it going to be calm…i never know

There are a number of free forums online where you will find people who have experience living with their bipolar disorder. Since I, like many people, have the disorder but also am supporting someone, I can sometimes see it from both sides.
Jaini, there is still stigma attached to bipolar and other mental illnesses in this country. Many people here “sweep it under the rug” as you say they do in other countries as well.

I agree that the timing of these honest and serious discussions is crucial. Dave has said over and over in his emails that it is important to make a plan before an episode. If that has not been done, such as in the case of a first episode or an episode where it is the first the supporter has dealt with, then supporters will probably not get anywhere very quickly until the person has returned to a level of stability. Even when they come out of the hospital, as someone else has said, they are vulnerable and are not always able to deal with things. A lot of times we don’t want to. It’s like when you go into the hospital for a physical illness or surgery. When you first come home, nobody expects you to have returned to your previous level of functioning. You’ll likely be in pain, weak, needing therapy and rest to heal. People need to remember that true bipolar is a physical illness of the brain which, unfortunately, when untreated, can cause people to behave in ways they normally would not.Actually, when someone is coming out of an episode, the supporter is coming out of it too, but from a different perspective. A supporter needs to do some healing too and get some distance from the episode before meaningful dialogue can take place. If there is sufficient trust that has been built up in the relationship, then it’s possible that, while the person with bipolar may not remember what was said or done that was so hurtful and destructive, they may be willing to believe you, especially if other people or evidence can back you up.

I do not advocate living in the same place with someone who is abusing anyone or their children. If there is abuse going on, there are shelters for people to stay at temporarily while they are sorting things through, many allow families. If someone is a danger to others, that person can be involuntarily committed but again, there is a way to do that and Dave has mentioned things like discussing your loved one’s potential episodes with the police (if they are open to that) and having your loved one sign certain kinds of documents when they are stable which will allow for actions to be taken to get them into treatment when they are in an episode.

Dave has, I believe, a program designed to help stop, at least temporarily, a divorce when someone who is bipolar is trying to get one. If you want to contest the divorce badly enough, you have to go to court before the year is up and, at the final hearing, (hopefully with a good attorney that doesn’t charge unmanageable fees but I know that is not always possible, and you need to state your reasons (such as the fact that the person was in an episode when divorce proceedings were begun) but I am no lawyer and have not been through the divorce situation myself though I have watched as friends have gone through it. If you want to save your marriage really, really badly, then it might be advisable to spend the money, even adding cost for speedy shipment, so that you can get hold of Dave’s strategies. I guarantee that it’s cheaper than what a decent lawyer would charge you for his/her involvement.

I hear a lot of people who post to this blog lamenting the fact that they don’t have money, are on fixed incomes etc. and can’t buy Dave’s materials. I know where you’re coming from. I live on disability income and whatever other income I get from occasional jobs. I have not bought Dave’s materials as yet. But you know, if you did buy, say, the divorce guide, you would have access to a free call from Dave who, though he is not a lawyer either, can give general advice drawn upon both his experiences and the experiences of others who shared their experiences when he was writing the guide on divorce and bipolar.

Dave, by the way, is not running a non-profit organization. I am not privvy to his company’s financial information, nor do I want to be, it’s not my business. But if you have been observant and have gone to his website and looked at his materials, you’ll notice that his company is an LLC, not a non-profit. He has repeatedly stated that he runs other businesses that do make money and that help to support bipolar central, borderline central, and other websites. I don’t like buying things on the Internet because, unlike looking in a bookstore or a library, you don’t really see exactly what you’re getting before you buy, even with a long description. However, Dave does off a money back guarantee. Now, if someone is living on the streets and accessing this site from a library or other Internet cafe, then you’re probably right and you probably don’t have the money right now to buy his products. If you’re in immediate danger of eviction (like you’ve gotten a 30-day notice and are on the final day and will be kicked out on the streets tomorrow) then I’d try to solve that problem first. But the reality is that most people accessing the Internet are doing so from a computer. So, take down the ordering information, sell your computer and other unnecessary items (I didn’t have a computer until three years ago and I managed to live for over fifty years without one and though I have a cell phone for emergencies and quick business calls I don’t get one with all the Internet access, camera, games, and text messaging capability. I can’t afford it nor do I really need it.

I know from painful experience that the mental health system for the uninsured or under-insured, for those on MEDICARE, MEDICAID and who must use some of the less desirable military facilities, is abysmal, particularly in the state from which I am writing. Therapists are expensive. So are psychiatrists. As with many other things, you get what you pay for and I’ve been on the receiving end of terrible, or no, care. But if you’ve got a closet full of clothes, a nice house, a bunch of electronic gadgetry, TV (especially if it’s high definition, digital, etc.) wonderful stereo, expensive musical instruments etc., if you frequent Starbucks and eat out and go to the movies often as opposed to, say, waiting till they come out on video and renting them, viewing them on a small TV etc. then you can afford Dave’s stuff. I’m not trying to sell it, by the way. I don’t even own it. But if I was facing imminent divorce and knew there was a guide that could help me stop it, I’d put it at the top priority. There have been times when I have chosen to sacrifice things (I don’t have Cable or Satellite TV, for instance) (Oh yeah, I didn’t have a cell phone for months either and I managed, just like we did before they were invented.) I know that in order to produce his courses/systems, he has taken a lot of time doing research, has had to deal with hiring, training and maintaining staff, taking the time to do daily emails which (and I get a lot of newsletters and other emails; some people started out doing daily ones but quickly found out how hard it was and dropped back to weekly or maybe three or four times a week) and when you buy his courses he does give you the consultaiton if it is included in the course. He has hired additional customer service people and is really trying to make the customer service end of things go smoothly. He is constantly putting out new material and has had to hire new writers and editors to do it. Oh yeah, for the record, I’m not one who has drawn a salary from Dave either. Yes,he does employ some Internet marketing tricks with which I am not in total agreement, but he really is trying to draw people to his site who truly need the support it can give, whether they are supporters or survivors.

For supporters,if you can find a decent support groups, which I know is harder than it sounds since a lot of them degenerate into whining and complaining sessions, it can be helpful. Additionally, a supporter may find that going into therapy to help sort things out and deal with the situation may be helpful as well. You don’t have to have a mental illness to gain insight and ideas from a therapist. They’ll take your money whether you have a mental illness or not. (smile)

I’m going to stop ranting now and by the way, I’m a reader of Dave’s daily emails, have been for awhile and have found them generally encouraging. However, whatever someone reads, whether in an email or here on the blog, is just a sharing of ideas, some that have worked for some people and some that haven’t. We are all responsible for how we handle the information. We sift through. Some we take, some we discard, some we file away for a time when it might apply.

I will tell you though that in my experience, posting your phone number over the Internet and expecrtingb a call from Dave or one of his staff is probably not a good idea and probably won’t get results. The reality is that he has hundreds of thousands of email subscribers, is still engaged in ongoing research and management of his mental health sites, and runs four other businesses as welll as still being a supporter of his mother and volunteering for local support groups and, oh yes, faithfully participating at a gym.

I have been on disability benefits for a long time, have worked only part-time and have been in some really horrible situations. Sometimes it’s tempting to ask for materials to be given free. After all, there are books to get from the library, there is literature in the offices of therapist and doctors and there is a lot of information available on the Internet, some good, some downright irresponsible and all of which must be viewed as objectively as possible. But with Dave’s products that he sells, you do get things you wouldn’t get elsewhere, such as interviews with people who are successfully coping with mental illness both as supporters and survivors, and interviews with professionals, such as his mother’s doctor. Those interviews, all that research, getting written transcripts which also come with the more elaborate courses, all that takes time and he has to pay others to do transcribing etc. In addition, he does have a fairly rigorous screening process for the people who work for him, if you’ve ever seen one of his job advertisements and filled out an application. He tries to employ high quality workers. Sometimes he gets burned and it’s not always by someone with a mental illness. But to ask him to give all of the kinds of information away free is not fair to him or those who work for him or, for that matter, to those who have given of their time (with or without pay) for their interviews. There are production costs for them too. Since his materials are hardcopy and professionally produced audio CDs, it would be unrealistic to expect to pay nothing for these products. But, though he will tell you, and I know it’s true, that this whole venture has not paid for itself and, while his other businesses are doing well, his business of providing quality mental health materials is not yet even breaking even, never mind making money. I know that on some of his courses he does offer an installment plan for two monthly installments. Personally, I wish it could be for even smaller installments. But since it’s not, if we want the info, we have to prioritize somewhere and find the money. There are creative ways to do it, like sharing a copy etc.

I wish all you supporters and survivors the best and I know you all are dealing with difficult situations. I know I hate to be told about something that I did that I have no memory of doing. I feel remorseful and guilty when the illness is causing problems. I consider myself a soldier in the war with the illness and, unfortunately, sometimes the illness clouds judgment and I end up firing on the very soldiers who are in the cause with me, fighting the same illness that has such devastating effects on us all, supporters and those with the illness.

Do you go or do you stay? When to end a relationship? It’s all a matter of choice. Dave has said many times in these emails that it is best not to walk out in the middle of someone’s episode. It’s likely that at that time neither one of you would be in the ideal position to make such a life-changing decision. Separate yourself from violence? By all means. But ending the relationship completely? I would hope that could be done when both people were in a better state of mind.

These situations are so complex, of course nobody has all the answers. Certainly Dave doesn’t. He’s still learning and will never have all the answers. Experts disagree on answers and nobody knows the exact situation another person is in. Nobody knows exactly how someone is feeling inside at any given moment. Yes, we who have been through similar situations can understand how some things feel, yes, we can all relate to basic emotions (well, assuming we don’t have other disorders like schizoid personality stuff and other things that hinder emotional insight) of fear, hurt, anger, loneliness, anxiety, discouragement etc. It’s all right for supporters to show their feelings, to show their vulnerability when it’s safe to do so. Everyone is human and a person with a mental illness, when they are more stable, will agree with and understand that. (Unless, they’re a borderline and they’re splitting, they’re in an episode etc. It’s true. Sometimes supporters feel like they have to fix everything, like they have to exude this superhuman strength all of the time. It doesn’t work. It’s not honest. Ultimately, if either the supporter or the person who has had the episode of illness goes right back into denial, if honest communication and expression of feelings doesn’t happen, then it will have negative effects on the relationship. Of course, there is honesty spoken with love and then there is honesty delivered with anger, bitterness, sarcasm or other weapons that defeats its purpose. Sometimes an objective mediator, like a therapist who isn’t a therapist for either the supporter or survivor, can aid in this.

But I’m tired of posting and I’ll bet you’re tired of reading. So I’ll get off my soapbox and quit trying to figure everything out. Hey, I’m the last one to say I was perfect either. (grin)
Laura

Dave,
How interesting that this would come two days after a serious episode with our bipolar son. He is currently in a psych unit in jail due his episode. We have seen it comng for 5 weeks, but could not get help for him.

Thank you for the information how to respond to him, both in jal and when/if he comes back to our home. This was so serious we are unsure if he will be welcome home, which is sad, for he requires our support.

Hi, David and Friends.
I was a bi-polar supporter until I could no longer.
I have been through 2 suicides attempts with her, two stints, for 30 days in the local psych unit and had gone to her hospital counseling sessions.
My daughter, who I choose to support, beat me up for the second time and I had to make her leave. I avoided calling the police, but she left me physically unable to care for myself.
Since she injured my leg and ankle, I was unable to drive, or to get around without crutches or a cane.
She left to live with her Dad in the Carribean, not the best area for a person with BP, but it was her choice.
I have, since, recovered from her injuries, after two months, put my house on the market for sale, and have moved with my sister to GA.
We do keep in touch, but she was agitated to find I had moved out.
Sometimes you have to kow when to say”I give”, I can’t take it any longer.
I am far happier now, starting a new life and moving on…her disorder is HER sisorder, and until she’s ready to assume that roll….she’ll destroy anyone and everyone that tries to help her.
Very truly yours,
Cheryl

wow… an interesting topic. I know my son yelled at me, in an affectionate way.. “why the heck did you LET me out of the house wearing THAT?? (following his first episode) He is now stable on medications and starting his first year at college. Yes, | am hopeful for his future. He is living away from here though and wonder what kind of support I can really give him? I text him daily and that makes ME feel better….. he is 5 hours away though….

Thank you Suzanne.. for blessing the surviors, but also us supporters.. May you be blessed real good too!

I am sorry to say that I have to agree with Virg and Cheri. Both of them are describing my husband and our relationship perfectly! I have stood by my husband through him being diagnosed, trying many medications and finally becoming stable. I went through three years of hell, abuse – mostly mental, but some physical as well. Threats of death, or stalking if I left him. Bizarre lies to keep me from leaving him when the threats didn’t work. No communication, because if I said anything and I do mean anything that he perceived as negative I would have to listen to hours of ranting about what a horrible person and wife I am. Supporting him and his two children, cleaning up after whatever messes he makes during an episode and asking nothing in return except for him to try to figure out what is wrong. Meanwhile, he has no idea how he is when he is in an episode, no memory of what he has said or done. Well, after many months of therapy and medication, he has been doing very well. Back to the wonderful man that I married, or so I thought. He is still acting wonderful, but I have again found things that he is doing behind my back, preparing to use things to blackmail me just in case I decide to leave him (this is not his first attempt at this). I am now just beside myself. I guess I was hoping for the medication to work better – or maybe this is just the start of another episode. Anyway, I try to be positive and supportive, but sometimes I have to wonder why – and how much more I can sacrifice of myself for him.

Hey David,

You are doing a lot of good work. I am enjoying reading your e-mails, and this manic attack subsided quicker. I am not able to catch up with all that you are sending me. I have a job and family to look after. But, I am trying to make time for your letters too.

My only son is 20 years, Mario. He is going for higher studies to Canada. I am concerned – will he be able to cope there. What are the chances of him getting bipolar, and will he get help there ?

Thanks & God bless you and your team.

I must be your only friend from India.

Cy