Hi,
Hope you are having a great day.
I have something interesting for you.
I saw a post on my blog from Mona.
She said:
“I have a question, Dave, if that’s
alright. BTW, I do agree with you
on the ‘baby steps’ concept. My
question is this: Can you tell me
what kind of responses might come
from a person with bipolar if they
are trying to repair a relationship
(from a bad episode) and the person
does not want to have anything to
do with them (because of what
happened)? Could that trigger a
suicidal response? (Or some sort
of retaliation?) And if so, how can
a support person help their bipolar
loved one get through such harsh
reality, or how can they help prevent
such a response?”
———————————————
Well, first of all, like I always say, I’m not a doctor, therapist, or any other kind of medical or mental health professional, so I can’t give that kind of advice.
I can only give my opinion, based on my experience.
But I will tell you, this is not the first email I’ve gotten like this.
And Mona does bring up quite a few points.
Many times, a person with bipolar disorder will do things during a bipolar episode (especially during a manic episode) that has consequences to it.
And sometimes these consequences are bad ones, and it’s hard for their supporter to handle them, or even to forgive them for what they did during the episode.
There may have been risky sexual behavior, or even an affair.
There may have been excessive spending, or poor business decisions, that may have affected (or even drained) the family’s finances.
There may have been other things that happened as well that hurt the relationship.
The supporter may have some negative feelings, like hurt, anger, resentment, etc.
Then these things might cause some real damage to the relationship.
Even though the one with bipolar disorder wants to repair the relationship after they come out of the episode, the supporter might be reluctant to accept these attempts.
Communication is one of the things I stress in my courses/systems, because that is really important in the relationship.
SUPPORTING AN ADULT WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarsupporter.com/report11
SUPPORTING A CHILD/TEEN WITH BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.bipolarparenting.com
HAVE BIPOLAR DISORDER?
Visit:
http://www.survivebipolar.net
But if the supporter is no longer even willing to communicate with their loved one, then it may cause their loved one to get worse, and they might go into a depression.
One of the symptoms of a depressive episode is suicidal thoughts.
If this happens, it may not be your fault.
After a manic episode, many people with bipolar disorder will “crash” into a bipolar depressive episode and have these kinds of thoughts anyway, because their thinking is distorted.
If this happens, they may have these suicidal thoughts.
It’s part of the depression, part of their bipolar disorder.
You can’t prevent them going into the depression, if it’s part of the crash from their manic episode to a depressive episode.
The only thing you can do to help them at this point is to notice the signs of suicide, and to try to get them the help they need.
At this point, if you want to help them, you will need to put your own feelings of hurt, anger, resentment, and unforgiveness aside.
If they are starting to talk about suicide, you MUST take them seriously, whether they really intend to go through with it or not.
Try to talk to them about it. Or at least try to get them to share their thoughts and feelings.
This is where the communication
I was talking about earlier comes in.
Try to convince them that they need help.
If possible, try to get them to at least call the suicide hotline at 1-800-SUICIDE.
Try to get them to call their doctor, psychiatrist, and/or therapist for help.
The point is, as Mona pointed out, this is a harsh reality that must be dealt with if your loved one’s reaction is one of threatening suicide.
Have you ever had to deal with the type of situation that Mona talked about?
What did you do?
Post responses below.
Dave,
My son has threatened sucide but has also wanted to kill my husband and I. (that is what the”voices” in head was telling him to do) As of right now he has been admitted in a mental hospital. Today will be the first day I get to see him and go to theropy. I really wish there was something a supporter could just to take it all away and make the person they love better, I know I would!
Angel
Hi Dave, I absolutely did have to go through episodes like this one many times. Only the last few times I couldn’t bring myself to continue to deal with it the rest of my life. I was at a crossroads and had to make a decisions to live with it or leave it. For my sake and the sake of our two wonderful kids, I left and decided that I could not communicate. Ofcourse he begged when he wasn’t in an episode and it hurt me dearly to not respond since I Love him dearly but I couldn’t deal with it any longer. I had to think of my sanity and ofcourse, back then I didn’t have the support of your Forum. Anyways, even though he didn’t voice his suicidal thoughts directly , I knew he was suicidal. I was so concerned that I may have caused it, but stood my ground. He resorted to threatening my life instead and I feared for my children when they were with him since the court ordered unsupervised visitation. I decided that I wanted what’s best for everyone and Took a stand to pay money to see his Psychiatrist and printed all the text messages so that he can see that what I was saying is true. He made a call to him and encouraged him to come in to see him and put him back on meds.
What I knew I couldn’t do myself, I made sure to get him the help for his sake and the sake of our kids.
I the mean time, I prayed quite a bit and I am still praying that he stays on the meds.
I did have to deal with a simliar situation. At the time my ex-husband had not been diagnosed with Bipolar disorder, but I don’t know if I would have done anything different had I known. My then husband was making poor choices because of his unstableness and those choices were building up to physically harming our children and myself. I was pregnant with our baby, which always seemed to put him over the edge stress wise. He was so angry he nearly killed our two year old. That was the last straw for me. I had to get a restraining order (which then became a permanent lifetime order). He did become very depressed shortly after and he was hospitalized for thoughts of suicide. I lived in fear of his behaviors (retaliation) after and it was difficult. But it’s been almost ten years now. We have both remarried (he did a year later, I did 8 years later). He was diagnosed (as was our oldest child) with bipolar. He has been deemed permanently disabled by the state and receives benefits, so he does not have to work. In our case I tried to bridge an understanding with his family that he needed mental help and that if he said he was thinking of suicide please don’t dismiss it (that was what they did prior). I hope that helped him. Our children have grown up in a better environment by him being out of the picture. My husband that I married a year ago also divorced a spouse with a serious mental illness. He too has a biological children that received some of those genetics. His children are not getting the mental help as well with his ex. The two of us are determined to help our mentally ill children to grow up and have as normal lives as possible. This situation worked out well for all of us, especially our children. Our ex-spouses are still not “stable”; but at least our children are in a stable environment and we are in a stable realtionship.
Responce to Bipolar and suicide:
I am currently dating someone who is bipolar. I met him after he had already jumped off of a bridge and lived to tell about it.
Let me first say that My ex-husband also had some mental illnesses. He refused to except them or even admit, or get help for them. Socialpath, multiple personality, bipolar, schitso you name it.
I lived with him for 9 years, with constant threats of suicide. These attempt usually came right about the time we were not getting along and when I had, had enough. They were usualy attempts to keep me. These attempts had worked several time in the past. Taking pills and drinking alot of alchohal was usually the thing he would do. This worked to keep me around for a while. (9yrs) I finally Divorced him and he is still alive its been 2 years now.
As for my current man, this is different, he knows and accepts that he has a mental illness. At one point was even taking medication. Its been over a year now since he has not taken any and we have had some ups and downs. I am alot more understanding with my man now than I ever was with my ex-husband, because he is willing to accept the challenge to better himself. Not to say that he doesn’t have his episodes, but I knew this when I met him and I am willing to work through it with him because I love him.
It is alot easier to work with someone who is working on themselves.
A person who doesn’t think they have a problem will allways have a problem.
Nobody is perfect.
In my oppinion, we all have our own path to choose.
Some of us are healer’s and other’s need to be healed.
I think that we all know what we are and what we can handle deep with in. Its accepting who we are that makes all the difference. Untill we come to this realization, we hold ourselves back from growning and loveing ourselves and others.
Listen to your intuition it never lets you down.
Good Luck and God bless….
Boy does this post ring true for me right now. Hubby had the most major manic episode ever back in the fall it came to such a head he had to be hospitalized. He ran our credit cards up and drained our bank accounts leaving us completely locked financially. He ruined his business to the point that it is closing officially as soon as details are worked out. He had an affair with a women he met on a chatboard who is also bipolar. He took their relationship off the chatboards and met with her in person. He claims it never got to sex although he wanted it to and just the act of what he was sneaking around doing is quite hurtful enough for me. He was clearly doing the chasing but she didn’t show much respect either sneaking around with him knowing he hadn’t told me and it was their little secret exciting life. She was leading him as well for her own ego I suppose. I sometimes think he should have stayed with her they might understand each other better. I am not able to move forward yet as we are still cleaning up the mess. He is remorseful and wants forgiveness but I have a real problem with this. For one thing we’ve been together for 17 years and he never (best to my knowledge) stepped out. Now that he is diagnosed (two years ago) he is almost using it as his excuse. Why suddenly throw all caution to the wind and be worse than he has ever been before? Marriage counselling is not an option until he works some issues out by himself. Till then I am civil and I am his family but make no mistake I am scared of what he is capable of doing to us more so now than ever before. Over the years he has screwed up many times been fired for not getting along with people but he always bounced back. This time he isn’t bouncing back as well and almost living in a new world with the diagnosis and almost giving up. He is seeing a psychiatrist to help out and she has a big job on her hands sorting this man out. The damage to a marriage is extensive with repeat and even bigger errors in judgment. It is almost a ticket to allow yourself to be a doormat to someone who simply stands back later not being held accountable for their actions. I wouldn’t recommend this to anyone who wants a peaceful life. And the sad thing is you didn’t choose the situation for yourself. It evolves.
Dave,
Good response about suicide. I counsel hurting people through my work at Broken Hearts Ministries, Inc. And some of these people have had thoughts of suicide.
One thing that might help in the case where the person is talking to you and telling you they feel like suicide is to keep them talking.
Studies have been done on people who passed away after suicide and extra adrenalin has been found in their bodies. If you keep them talking, then this adrenalin may dwindle and pass and then their desire to take their life may also pass.
I believe it helps to talk at least 20 minutes (or longer) with the person. Keep listening mostly and show as much empathy as you can. Let them talk until you sense they are calmer.
Walk in their shoes as much as possible. Hold back on judgement or advice (except to tell them the positive side).
Tell them things like “tomorrow will be another day” and “things will change” and that you care about them.
A year later my ex boyfriend shows up in front of my place of business. Thin and emaciated, he is begging for food and a place to sleep. I take him for a 3 day detox for methamphetamine toxicity and he gets out and tells me he has never felt better in his life and God is directing him now to stay clean and healthy. Today he took a flight to the Virgin Islands and will arrive there broke and homeless. My heart is sickened by his lack of direction, however after years of verbal and sometimes physical abuse, I had to emotionally detach and let him go. 4 suicide attempts, homelessness and IV drug abuse has left him a broken man. But tonight, he will be on a beach somewhere in the Virgin Islands. I pray for his safety and mine. God bless all of us.
The advice to tell ANYONE contemplating suicide, to call the Suicide Hotline, is the BEST alternative. Most of us are not equipped as professionals to deal with someone who is intent on taking their own life. I know it’s difficult to get them to that stage where they would call, but you MUST make them do it.
I highly agree with the post that you MUST keep them talking (if you’re with them, or even on the phone). I never knew the information about there being an excess of adrenaline in the systems of suicides, but it doesn’t surprise me. If you can “talk them down,” maybe you can keep them ALIVE until they see a professional about their thoughts. Sometimes, just getting them to “wait one more day” to see their mental health professional, is enough to stop the suicide ideation.
Thanks for a highly informative email today, Dave. I, too, have learned a lot…
BIG HUGS to all bipolar survivors and those who love us. May God bless you real good. I pray for my country.
HI DAVE……
Suicied thoughts I think I have had them most of my life. Bouts of deppresion. When you get the thoughts you dont seem to be able to shrug them off. They sort of take over your way of thinking. Theres got to be something on this earth to cling on to. Any one who is a surporter looking after some one with bipolor it is no excuse for affairs this that and the other because they are inflickting it on to there partner. Comunication thers none of that when you
have never had conversation for a longgggg time. If some one over rules you you begin to shut your self off.And hope they will go away. If you do start to comunicate with them they try to draw you in to them and melt your brain till you can no longer think for yourself. Your appinion does not make one bit of difrence to them.
Take Care Dave
I’m loving and living with gentleman who has yet to be formally diagnosed with bipolar, but has exhibited most of the symptoms, including a recent suicide attempt. He’s unemployed, uninsured and dependent on public assistance and our state’s medical/mental health network, which under the current economic circumstances is overburdened. He’s only seen a therapist once in the eight weeks following a short stay in a state mental health facility and has been told that he will only be scheduled for further appointments every two weeks. He has to wait another month before medications will be prescribed! Unfortunately, he declines seeking the services of a private-sector therapist as he is in a financial ditch. I must admit that I did not react well to the suicide attempt. I’ve felt tremendous guilt which was compounded as his family needed to blame me for his mental health issues. I was angry and frightened for weeks, but finally accepted our reality. We have scheduled weekly “chats” that have been helpful to us both. We’ve found that taking a walk, going for a leisurely car ride or sitting on the beach helps us both to stay calm an in the moment for our chats. Nature has a great calming effect and affords us both the necessary distractions and breaks in the conversation. It has helped reduce much of the drama at home and keeps us connected and focused. I’m not sure where our relationship will find itself down the road, but for now, we make our “chats” a priority and will continue to do so after his diagnosis. I wish all who are reading this peaceful days, wonderful dreams and the strength and wisdom necessary to help our loved ones!
dear dave,
first and foremost let me say ‘thank you for your knowledge. very briefly,let me see if i can recieve some in put.i have a girlfriend that is bipolar. have been with her for 2 1/2 yrs. love her to death, she has showen strong love even threw her episodes. i recently was in auot accident recieved tramatic brain injury almost lost my life and she stood by like a trooper.she is currently incarcerated soon to get out and i have a problem. i dont know if, i have changed but i love her too death to think of all of what i might have to go threw.she has done everything you have mentioned about lieing,cheating,unable to maintain employement as well as friendships with everybody in my family but i guess what i am asking is a little advice to make our lives more pleasureable when i get out of threapy and her from jail.how do i in your opinion handle this type of situation with my condition in not a selfish manner.
with much respect
steve
To STEVE: I’m NOT Dave, but maybe my personal experience with my boyfriend – who was paranoid schizophrenic and me, bipolar – could help.
I just loved him to death (like you say you love your girlfriend). I “allowed” him to get away with unacceptable behavior just BECAUSE I didn’t want to lose him. We broke up, and made up, several times. He was even in the State Mental Hospital for three months (of course, I visited him 70 miles away). I was “addicted” to him – I had to have my “daily fix” of him, or my life was dull and boring.
BUT – and here is the advice. Set down some rules and boundaries for her behavior. Since you had a TBI, this is ESSENTIAL for your own welfare. Since you mention that some of her behaviors are typical “bipolar,” like lying, cheating, using up money, make some of your boundaries to cover these activities. Don’t be afraid to bring up matters that you WON’T accept; it’s like the old line – “If you love someone, let them go. If they return, they were meant to be your’s. If they don’t, it was never meant to be.”
The only reason I’m NOT with this original boyfriend is because I left him to marry my first husband – who died 5 years later. Then, when I moved back to where I had lived before, I found out that my original boyfriend had ALSO died. The two deaths just about ruined me.
I wish you ALL the happiness you two deserve. Just go into this relationship with your eyes OPEN, as well as your heart.
Hi Dave,
Your emails are very helpful. Thank you. Please let know what is your advise. I am in a relatinship with a man that was diagnosed bipolar after we were dating for several months. I care about him and stayed in the relationship to help him in some way. In trying tohelp I find myself doing things that enable him, ie doing laundry,cleaning, lending money, helping him take his meds and the worst not knowing how to say anything about him drinking daily. He shuts me or anyone out that tries to direct him and so to stay around i accept it 🙁 I did not know what was ahead of me in terms of trying to help and what that becomes with bipolar disorder. I want to get married and have afamily, but he has expressed to me that he does not believe in marrige b/c of his parents difficult marriage and his tough childhood. I love him and we share something very special but it seems he needs to care for himself before first but there are so many levels to overcome..
What can I do at this time? Any ideas. Ede C.
I have lived with this the majority of my life. it is what it is. plain and simple. now I believe they now call it autism.
I have been told that bipolar, as is schizophrenic is on the same rainbow as autism and it is a continuum, sometimes showing signs of one more than another. And after reading and learning about many different diagnoses that my husband has been given over the years – bipolar, shizoaffective, schizophrenic, narcissism, mania only (not in manual of diagnosis however so this makes some doctors scratch their heads), depression, sociopathy,a psychotic, intermittent explosive disorder, conduct disorder, compulsive liar, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. But they all seem to be on the same continuum but differ in severity at any given time. But the one thing that was clear over 17 years is after living through at least 25 threats of suicide from him, he never even attempted it that I know of, but instead it was for attention, or money or something he was not getting at the time. He found a way to manipulate others by claiming he was going to kill himself, it worked, so he kept on doing it. Quite immature. The last time I was so sick of it I told him go ahead and do it already and followed it up with driving him to a mental health hospital the next day and told him that if he was so serious to get help. That was the beginning of many hospitalizations and the last time I trusted a mental health hospital to administer the right medication. After that there were so many bouts of mania and still are. And with mania they give them Haldol, let them leave, claim they are not pychotic at that very moment, and 48 hours later, since it is only a 72 hour stay, you have a very abusive manic and out of control person on your hands. Check out the website for preventable tragedies and see how many people were recently in mental health hospitals. Also, it is our family’s experience that the depression is much more tolerable and makes him even nice to be around because the depression to us is normal behavior – everybody has ups and downs but it seems he expects to be up as in high on antidepressants and when he does not feel that way now he claims he is depressed and then threatens the psychiatrist that he is suicidal to get antidepressants. It is a circus what he has put people through. So yes, when and if one of my children says they feel suicidal or depressed it is very serious, but I had to learn to ignore it from the one that is the most sick because of the manipulative behavior behind it.
I had scheduled to see my psychologist on Wednesday. I called him an hour before my appointment and informed him that I took too much medication. I have been overdosing for a couple months; hoping to have success at an ‘unitentional overdose.’ Suicide has not worked for me in the past; I even mess that up. My therapist is fully aware of my ‘history’ and my current situation; however, I think he is allowing me to finally do something right and kill myself.
Dear Sir,
I have been reading your e-mails for awhile now and hve just read a bought your courses. My husband is bipolar and was told so in 1993. It toke me a few years to get himto take his meds on a daily bases and other people to tell him the saw animprovement in him to get him to beleave he had the disorder. I still have to remind him every day to take his meds but he doesnt argue any more a bought it.
He used to make friends all the time but as of the last few years he doesnt seem to make friends that he keeps and he can on longer hold down a job for a long period of time.
I have been with him for 21 years now and the first 3 years we were marrid he had 21 different jobs. From 1988 to 1993 when he was dianosed he had 26 different jobs. by the end of 1993 he had a job the same place as I did and it made it easier for him to stay and not piss people off to get fired and the bosses understood his problem. but since 2000 he has had a hard time keeping jobs. I had been the main supporter of the family and it was a little easier when the childern left home but I have not been able to work since 2007 when I was let go from my job becuse of a work related injury which restricts my ability to work.(law siut pending). In 2003 the milatary took responsiblity for his disorder so they send him a goverment check every month but it is not enough to saport us.
I would love order your book but there is no way for me to pay even 100. I need to know how to get him unemployable and receive more money. He has to see goverment doctors as the take responsiblety for him and if finding the right doctor is hard try telling the goverment they arent doing the right thing.
My questine is if you know how bad money gets with a bipolar person is then how can we buy your books. Jobs are hard to come by as it is right now and for those of us who cant get work money is even tighter.Being bpolar is hard enough and now my husband cant get work it makes him even more depressed. When his unemployment runs out we have no where to turn.
Thanks for listening.
Sincerly,
Pam
Well, I can only say that people with bipolar disorder need therapy and to stay either on meds or some other naturapath medication/therapy.
I was married for about 17 years to someone who was bipolar, he wouldn’t get help, I begged and pleaded, told him I would be with him go to counseling for our marriage, and try to maintain a sense of stability for the children.
Well, I have been divorced for 10 years, and am married to a wonderful man, I still have post traumatic stress syndrome because of being beaten by my ex, and basically he took everything from me, by threatening me, I gave him the house, everything, because I wanted to cut him out of my life that badly. He in turn, didn’t thank me for that, only bad mouths me to my daughter, still…. and he knows alot of prominent people, so therefor it’s hard for me to get a job in this city. I have been called many names by many people, who don’t know what they’re talking about. He told people and my daughter I did drugs and had an abortion, which I did Not. I told her that I didn’t.
Anyways my current husband and I are trying to move out of state away from this insanity so we can move on with our lives.
My ex would be gone week ends and not tell me where he was going, spend alot of money on his hobby, and thought he was going to be a “rock star”. Also had an affair with someone on crack/cocaine, and wanted to build a life with her, and told me he had a new family. Bills not paid, I had to get a fulltime job on top of helping him with his business, and gave him my paychecks, and still… he didn’t pay the taxes.
If someone doesn’t want help there is not one thing you can do except pray for them, and I do still pray for him, the other people that he has talked to and lied about me, well they are the ones that I should pity, they will one day find out what he’s really like, and I won’t be around to see it, because I will be out of state.