I am so sick of you blaming the family. Why don’t you blame the patient. When their episode is over… they are the ones to take steps on what to do when another happens. These people are irresponsible and don’t care what damage they do, or to who they do it to.
Wake up Dave.

Dave:
I agree with you.
When you’re in it and out of control, you need someone close to tell you that you are in trouble and need help.
Sy

It’s not necessarily the family’s “fault”, but it’s true that the bipolar person in an episode CANNOT act for themselves when they are that out of control. You, as a family member or friend, have to recognize it and try to get that person into treatment. It’s not easy. We used to be able to see my mom’s “evil twin” when she was in a manic episode. You definitely knew you weren’t dealing with the normal “mom”. And she didn’t want help because manic FEELS good to them. They can’t see they aren’t in control of their thoughts or actions. My daughter has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and BiPolar Disorder. We, the family, have been taught to separate the disorder from the person and attack the disorder, not the person. You can’t always win and convince the person that they are not thinking rationally, but if you get them the necessary medications and keep trying…you can come out on the other side.

This comment has been removed by the author.

Spot on, David.

It annoys me in general, not just for Ms Spears, reading so many unqualified commentators say thing like “… it’s about time she straightened herself out…” or that she “twisted”. But she’s so obviously ill! It’s madness (pun intended)to suggest she can just “pull herself together”. Hell, we’d all do that if we could!!
Wouldn’t that the great? A bit of therapy an positive think and – hey! The Bipolar’s gone! Yeah, I wish. All these “pull yourself together” ignorant folk are doing is outting tons more pressure on the ill person, making them feel inadequate because the CAN’T pull themselves together, yet it’s not their fault.
That’s the great thing about getting diagnosed. Sure, it doesn’t absolve us from ALL responsibility for the things that we do, but it does mean all those depressions, all those other things that happened when we’re so high we’re with the faeries, none of this is our fault. It’s the damned Bipolar.

Sometimes you have to walk away
I am about to. Tired of being blamed for his issues, when he refuses to acknowledge what 3 doctors have told him
You can’t choose your parents, but you can choose your relationships.Five years of ups and downs and ins and outs. I am burned out and burned up.
I have done all I can physically and emotionally do. Had enough.

David,

That was beautiful!!!! As a BP I really appreciate your words of wisdom in more ways than you will ever know. I will share this with my spouse as he has never understood how to take the bull by the horns….I have always had to be the one to say take me to get help or get the counseling and treatment…but he was always there for me emotionally, and has forgiven me for so many horrible ways I abused him emotionally.

This morning during coffee we talked about my episodes and what kind of control I have when in an episode…the cold hard fact…is NONE. He said it is like a switch that you never know when someone will flip it on. I am like a whole other person during an episode that he doesn’t recognize and has no idea how to handle…WHO CAN??

I will be sure to make it known that his job is to get me help even if I kick and scream!!!

I am curious though how did you get her to go willingly? I went willingly the last time but am fearful of returning again when I am at my most vulnerable moment, I really did not feel comfortable in that setting wanted to leave as soon as I got there almost…and on top of that they bombard you with tons of personal questions that you just don’t give a fricken damn about answering? Any suggestions on this as well??

Diane

DO NOT feel guilty about what you are about to do. As a matter of fact… run
You have done what you can and he has just took advantage of you. It is up to him to get better. Hey ya never know, he just may do it since you won’t be there to ENABLE him.
Good luck and I wish you a happy life

My daughter started having bipolar episdes when she was about 15. She may have looked like a sweet little girl, but she was more like the possesed girl from the exorcist. I must’ve filed 50 missing persons reports in two years. Nobody would help me, nobody would listen to me. Even when she was put into the juvenille justice system they were convinced her problems were drug related because marijuana showed up frequently when she was tested. I told them she needed mental help, the drugs were secondary.My insurance would only pay for a 3 day program and then when the medical facility said she was ok, that was that. I guess my point is how could I have helped her? I didn’t have the financial resources to put her in a private mental hospital. Now she is 21, her life is spiraling out of control, she desperactely needs treatment but I don’t know how I can make her get it?

This comment has been removed by the author.

Hey Dave,
My bp boyfriend has always told me “you can’t help someone who won’t help themself”. I so often struggle with that. What do YOU think? He always joked that he would “win”…his mania would “defeat” me. I feel SO defeated! The gentle, soft-spoken, sensitive guy I knew has become this sinister stranger. He is now on his 8th affair in 10 months. He has been writing nasty letters to the company he works for. The only people in his life right now are those he’s acquired since this episode began. He has successfully convinced his friends and family that I’M crazy! He told them I’m a stalker, said he’d call the police if I came near him. I’m the only one that knows the “real him”. I fear for the day that he wakes up and doesn’t recognize his life anymore. I fear for the day that he realizes what he’s done. Is it true that you can’t help someone who won’t help themself???

Can anyone share their experience with me on ABILIFY meds plus klonopin…..i just started them today —-i dont know anyone that is bipolar so i have no one to ask and the DR’s version of meds always seems light and day apart from my experiences -after the fact of course–i have read a lot of clinical information but nothing real life….thanks, Kerry

JOD,
Sadly, it is!

You could certainly try but be prepared to fail over and over again. It is a bloody battle and it takes no prisoners.

Oh my God, 8 in 10? Even I would not go for that! Do you know if he practices safe sex? You do what your heart tell you to, but one sure advice I would give you without ANY second thoughts would be: DO NOT sleep with him unless he is tested! If he refuses, than do yourself a favor and be just a friend to him.

I’m dealing with a problem that always is beguining and never ends.Then a search for strategies,manners of to speak and to behave,that were able to be right and nothing make effect. I have a dream,a long time ago, with my love on,that were a stonemason full of purple flowers, that I think symbolize the episodes.Lilian P.

You’re a dick. You don’t know the first thing about bipolar, because you don’t have the illness and that is the bottom line. You may feel you have some insight because you have been a victim of many episodes, but you don’t come close to understanding how a bipolar thinks and feels, so stop presuming you do. I AM bipolar and I battle it on a daily, sometimes hourly basis. Just once, I would like to forget I am bipolar, or at least remove the focus from it and just be normal, but I can’t. People like you won’t let me. My husband bought your cds and I rue the day he did. I am glad they gave him some comfort and a sense of accomplishment, but I personally thought much of what you had to say was a load of repetitive crap spoken from the viewpoint of one who has not dealt with his own issues. Thanks to you and your narrow-minded rhetoric, I am not able to enjoy my own wellness, because my husband insists upon policing my every move. I feel as though I am living under a microscope. I can’t have so much as an episode of PMS without my husband hauling me back to the hospital. And then there’s the constant comparisons to life before my hospitalization. Not a day goes by that my husband doesn’t exclaim “Oh! You are SO much better now and I can tell because you used to do THIS…” He then proceeds to describe in harrowing detail some mortifying aspect of my earlier manic behavior, (XYZ), and contrasts it with an illumination of my current behavior, (ABC). All this succeeds in doing is making me feel 1. ashamed, 2. wracked with guilt and remorse, 3. depressed, and 4. wishing I had never recovered because at least when I was out of my mind, I was not aware of my own behavior, and therefore did not have to suffer the crushing pain I currently experience on a daily, if not hourly basis. I partially blame you and your stupid cds for this. Did it ever occur to you that we bipolars might just want to be treated like normal people? Did it occur to you that we may not want to exist in this hypervigilant/hyperaware state that your program promotes? I would like to enjoy my wellness, but I cannot, because I am sickened by constant blow-by-blow accounts of what I “used” to be like. Everyone knows Britney is bipolar and evryone wishes she would get help. I personally pray for her all the time. But I also feel very sorry for her because when she does get help, the weight of her very public embarrassment is going to crush her. Maybe she’s better off crazy. Which brings me to my point — I wish you and my husband would BOTH get some therapy and leave me in peace. I feel sorry for your mother, because one thing I KNOW with every fiber of my being is that there is no way she would intentionally hurt you in the manner you describe. NO SANE MOTHER would ever deliberately hurt their child. And like Britney, I am sure it is not pleasant to have her ugly behavior cited in such a public forum. It angers and sickens me to know that you would do this to her, and for profit no less. Britney is a celebrity and therfore, has no choice but to live in the public eye. Your mother, however, may not care to have her transgressions divulged to millions. If you want to rant about the disease and all its ugliness, then go ahead, BUT STOP discussing your mother in such a disrespectful manner. Has it ever occurred to you what a complete piece of shit she must feel like now that you’ve aired her dirty laundry to the world? I am sorry for the pain you have endured, but has it ever occurred to you that she’s in pain too? Probably not, because like I said, you’re a dick.

HELLO EVERYONE, I AM FEELING SO HAPPY AND EXCITED TODAY. DAVE OLIVER CALLED ME!! to talk about my son who has bipolar. I don’t know why so many of you people get angry with him. You don’t have to come here if you don’t like what is being said. He only calls it as he sees it from the experiences he has had with bipolar and his mom and he makes everyone aware of just that. He doesn’t blame the family he only points out that bipolar is difficult and especially without a support system. That support system is usually your family or some part thereof. I think Dave is great and I could not believe my ears when he advised me that is was him on the phone. He took time out of his day to call me when I indicated how in distress I was and struggling to know if I had done the right things or if I am or am not doing at least some of the right things to help my son overcome his challenge of bipolar. It is also obvious that Brittany Spears has no support system. Everybody was there when she was a shining star but what about now? People are really something else and so quick to judge too. People who are bipolar do care they just don’t have the same thoughts as what some would consider a “normal” person or mentally healthy would say it better. I think what Dave does here is super fantastic. Try to keep in mind that nobody is going to agree with someone elses ideas all the time. If coming here helps more than it doesn’t then it is certainly serving its purpose. It is great just to know we are not alone in this battle. THANKS AGAIN SO MUCH DAVE FOR CALLING ME. I STILL CAN’T BELIEVE IT. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND. LAURIE

This comment has been removed by the author.

Wow, this blog is “hoppin” today! I’ve never seen such a lively discussion. I go back and forth between wanting to help my husband(who is bp) and wanting to run away. I agree with June. Even Dave said that the decisions a bp person makes when they are STABLE will determine how they do in an episode, or if they go into a manic episode. They have to really want to get better for there to be change. As a wife, I am tired of dealing with bipolar disorder. I need some hope. We’ve been married 22 years and the last 6 have been especially rough on the bipolar front. Is there any chance for change? Does he want to get control of this thing? And Graham, I agree, you said a few days ago that he cannot be cured. But maybe HE could create a plan, HE could take his meds EVERY DAY, he could see his doctor more frequently. I do feel like I’ve enabled his manic behavior by staying; I complain, yet I’m still here. Please give me some hope that things can be different. Keep up the good work Dave. Your’e not a dick. 🙂

Hi Ana
Yeah, you are right that he could create some kind of plan when he is stable. For a start, as you say, he could take his meds when he is stable – if he doesn’t do that already. And if he doesn’t, more fool him! If he doesn’t take ’em when he’s low, when he would still be cognisant enough to know what he’s doing, more fool him…. now, hang on a minute … Graham – you’re forgetting something.
Ana, did you know that some people feel so cr#p when they are deeply depressed that they don’t take their meds just so that can go manic. You see being manic (usually) feels so very much better than being depressed. I don’t do that because, these days, I don’t usually go too far low. But I have been so low that I wanted to jump under a train. If I could have done somthing to drag me out of that feeling – other than jumping under a train! – I’d have done it. I’d have done anything! Absolutely anything. If I could have got Diamorphine I’d have taken it. And if that hadn’t worked I’d have taken some more… So, when I hear of BPs deliberately not taking their meds I can understand why they might do it – to get a high after an intolerable low. Their lows just might be as unbearable as was mine.
So, if that is what your guy is doing – you might want to check with him – don’t be hard on him for not taking the meds.
It’s damned easy for us to say what a BP should and should not do to avoid the roller coaster that hurts the carers, but bare in mind that, some BPs have amazingly bad lows that seem permanent to them, ofgten because of the meds and the fact that their doc might not yet have the dosage or mix of meds right for them. Now, if you were taking meds that you thought made you feel like jumping under a train, wouldn’t you stop taking them?
You see, what BPs do may not appear to be rational to the carers but, if you can put yourself in the shoes of a BP, you may begin to understand there often IS a logic to why they do things that seem not to be in their best interests.
That said – I’ve said this before – your first duty is to safeguard your own well-being. You’ll be no use to anyone least of all yourself or your man, if you go stir-crazy trying to handle a situation you cannot cope with anymore. If that’s how you feel, get out now. Just go. You could always go back, if you wanted, when you felt better.
Now, I’m really not trying to lay some guilt trip on you, but if you (or anyone else reading here) decides to give up being a carer, when you say goodbye, do it like it will be your last goodbye because it just might be. You have to consider how you would deal with them taking their lives while you are not there, to get it straight in your mind – rehearsed, ready, just in case. Remember there is a 1 in 3 chance he’ll attempt suicide whether you are there or not. The risk is 52% if there is a history of suicide in his family. Of course, if it happens THAT WON’T BE YOUR FAULT. Know it. But prepare yourself to fight off any such feelings just in case it happens, And steel yourself to hostility and fall out with some family and friends, because, sure as Hell, some of them WILL blame you.
Please understand I really am not trying to lay a guilt trip on you. You just have to know what you may be up against if you leave, so you can weigh that up against the known pain you feel by staying. I know what I would do in your shoes … but it’s not for me to say – it’s for you to decide for yourself.
Good luck.

JODS, your boyfriend sounds just like my ex-husband. From some of the evidence I found he was at least using protection, but he denied everything. He still denies he has a problem and refuses to see a doctor to be diagnosed. His daughters are totally on his side and it’s mainly thanks to them that our marriage failed. They believe that I am the one with the mental problem, when they didn’t live with their Dad to see how crazy he could get. They had no idea of his affairs and sex addiction.

DAVE and SY, I agree too. It’s particularly difficult when a second wife and 2 grown up daughters have totally opposite opinions about who needs what type of help.

My current bipolar boyfriend has a jealous ex-girlfriend who keeps causing endless trouble in his life. So far he has managed to remain fairly stable in spite of enormous stress. I believe she is trying to get him to flip so she can have total control over him. I won’t let that happen.

As for Britney Spears: There seems to be an ever increasing number of musicians and actors who are thought to have bipolar disorder. I wonder what was there first – the proverbial chicken or the egg? People like Britney lead a very hectic, sometimes crazy, lifestyle. Can that type of lifestyle develop bipolar disorder? Or are bipolar people particularly attracted to that type of lifestyle? Just wondering.

Dave,
They call it “an intervention”. It’s the same for folks on drugs. When a person is on drugs or bipolar, they are not in control, so someone has to step in and be the one in control. When my son got on drugs when he was a teen, they had programs like you talked about, TOCs, where you drop off your kid and voila… all better! It doesn’t work like that!! My daughter has handled my grandsons bipolar very well I think. She took him to the emergency room initialy, then got him into treatment. He is doing wonderfully now, but it took several years! Nothing happens fast when you are dealing with things like this. It takes a LOT of patience and perserverance, but if you love them, you do it and you keep on doing it.

This comment has been removed by the author.

Hi David, I finally managed to creat myself a blog, see, I’m kind of a starter in matters of pc. So far it’s been a help, though I’m not even sure I’ve got BD.
I’m looking forward to read anything you send me.
Love, Eve.

Dave, I have been lurking around here and receiving your email and reading your materials for about 6months. I found your site online because I have an elder in family with bipolar disorder that I support. I also work in the media entertainment field.

1. You crossed the line with the Britney Spears article. I am hoping her publicist may have you on the phone by now. Come on people, this is a marketing ploy by good old Dave. As old as hills, tie your sales subject into the “hot” media market.

2. Readers and followers. Dave does blame the family that is how he sells his supporters course, by quilt tripping you. Take a real hard look at this.

3. I belong to another bipolar forum and several people have reported being taken advantage of by Dave. For those of you reading, please be advised.

4. There is real help out there and this quack is out for one thing. Money and lots of it.

5. Question for Dave, you keep mentioning media coverage in your marketing email. Who is your media coverage with? TV, radio, newspaper? We want specifics Dave.

6. I caution you all about trusting many of these posts, many are purposeful “sales ads”. Posted by Dave or decoys.

7. If you find comfort and support here, I applaud that. I just hope you will take a close look at Dave and what his real methodology is.

Lulu,

I certainly have not been planted on this blog with to sew seeds to get David any money…You need to stop dissing people just because they know how to be good at sales….I admire the fact that he is like this…since I am the complete opposite..I let others take advantage of my knowledge and I get nothing from it except a good old fashion Thank You! I like being this way it gives me a sense of satisfaction and enjoy it.

Do you have a job????

From what I know of David he hires people like me with BP and therefore needs to get income in order to pay their salaries…basic economics!!

David you do help people even those who deny it get something from you…usually words they don’t want to hear because they want the easy way out of this illness!

Hi Everyone,

Here is my last published media interview:
http://ednews.org/articles/18475/1/An-Interview-with-Dave-Oliver-About-Bipolar-Disorder-Awareness-Day/Page1.html

Dave

What causes BP? As I understand the academic papers I’ve found on the net, and a couple of of books on the subject, BP is caused by an abnormal gene. That’s why it is inherited. If the gene is there that does not necessarily mean a person will develop BP. I can remain dormant and stay that way. However, it can be triggered on (but apparently not triggered off) by stress, a trauma and depression. Typical is the Dysthymic route, where a troubled childhood (e.g. undiagnosed, untreated Dyslexia) creates a depression in the child during the formative years of when their personalities are created. The personality is cemented into a bedrock of this depression, creating a permanent low level depressive disorder, which is called Dysthymia. If the errant BP gene is in the same person as the Dysthymia, the Dysthymia is likely to trigger the BP; so, you get a nasty situation of Dysthymia depression overlaid with BP.
BP can’t be cured but it can be controlled to some extent with the right meds and (usually) a radical change in life style. (In my case, a complete change of career from high flying research well paid job in a bank to being a teacher’s assistant one what will be once I qualify a meagre wage. But I’m not complaining – this new job is a lot more fun than the old one, not to mention less stressful!) HOWEVER, every now and then the BP, like a vicious sleeping dog (I prefer to call it a sleeping dragon) sometimes it wakes up when it reminds you who is REALLY the boss!

Tere said, “Whenever I got to the point at which your husband was distroying stuff and squeeling tires…You should have just backed off…I know I have been in his shoes and yes when we are sick we say LEAVE US ALONE…because that is all we feel we need to get better…and sometimes that is all we need!”

Yeah, I can relate to that. Sometimes when people want to help, their presence puts too much emotional pressure on us. It makes us more anxious when they try to help which ISN’T helpful. As a child I remember crying for no reason and having a well-meaning teacher pestering me, asking “What’s the matter?” Hell, I didn’t know! I said so but she couldmn’t accept that, so she kept on and on and on ..”What’s the matter? You can tell me.” I weould have said ANYTHING just to get her away from me. It was real torture, making me feel a whole lot worse. Then she gave me a way out. “Is it a problem at home?” she asked. It wasn’t but I said “Yes” anyway. That satisfied her and she finally left me alone. So, if a BP in distress s ays “lerave me alone”, leave them alone. Just back off unless if it looks like they may be a danger to themselves. Then get medical help.

This comment has been removed by the author.

Dear sweet Misty….you are not wrong to protect yourself or your son for that matter.

I do not condone any physical abuse of another person what so ever. If you go into my own blog you will see how protective I am of all children…they don’t deserve any of it and should never have to witness such extreme moods..but as long as the kids know about the issues as an open line of communication everyone can step back and breathe and then say ok this is not (whatever your husband’s name is) this is as one womans said (BIP) now Bip is dangerous when pissed so what can I do to safeguard myself and others when he gets like this is a good question to ask yourself?

Do you have an immediate neighbor that your son can run to in emergency or a grandma they can call to come get them?

This comment has been removed by the author.

Misty,

I was just beginning to feel like the biggest piece of crap again for having this disorder, feeling low very low about how I don’t deserve to be loved by anyone because I have BP…very hurtful…and it just rehashed all the old insanity and it depresses me to no end to hear snap judgements when they don’t know all the facts. It always looks worse when you are in it so I have to step back and look at the whole picture, but damn it…the thoughts of inadaquacies just keep nagging at me and I lost so much sleep over it last night and my appetite. I have closure and am moving forward.

I agree every situation is different and each person has different factors involved so not everyone’s going to know what to do to appease everyone.

Graham does understand the madness…sweet SuzanneWA lives the madness with a heart of golden glass, many more people on this blog I could go on about them all, as they all understand it…but the supporter doesn’t, no big surprise to me (I don’t mean this sarcastically just that it makes sense they don’t have it themselves). We can’t feel the pain or no the thoughts of another.

I don’t understand the supporter’s frustration real well other than relating it to my own frustration of a lack of being able to heal the elderly patients I cared for and played games with daily from the clutches of deterioration and eventual death.

I do get the frustrations of others loud and clear…as my husband was not always patient with my madness either. I love him in perfection and in chaos.

Take the kids for a long walk or for a long drive till your hubby has had a chance to cool off and get himself together…do what you have to do to leave when he needs the space…come home and ask if he is alright…don’t say are you over it now or are you ok now? Just say are you alright? Please refrain from terms such as past form “now” that trigger the past anger you left behind? Don’t ever leave saying get yourself together and slam the door….calmly say I respect your need for space at the moment..I will go out for a bit and give you some time alone. Kisses as you leave if he lets down his guard. Always try to leave with his dignity in tack…and your own if and when you can.

I lived thousand of miles from my family and friends as well but finally moved closer to family again. It was hard for me as a new wife and mother living in a completely strange place not knowing a soul but your spouse and new baby. Isolation was something that used to make me go insane. Oh how I needed a good friend back then. Hell I still feel that way sometimes, :0

I’m here for you. How involved in his doctor visits are you? Does he let you come along for your input? I found even though it was extremely humiliating, that my husband was way more honest and perceptive of what was going on with my mental state than I was. I just wish he could have gone to them all. I had to be good and keep a journal of my moods and ask him to give me input to share with the doctor when he couldn’t come.

My husband has all control of the finances…such a bummer, but for good reasons.

I spend too much at the grocery store he doesn’t so he shops.

I mostly have a poor appetite so he knows that cooking sometimes bothers me, so he cooks dinner.

I do everything else though with the kids, and house work. When I get sick it is real difficult to bounce back because no one takes care of my chores when I am sick and can’t, so I get overwhelmed in all I have neglected. Damn I want a maid along with that cook. lol.

Brittany needs much support from family friends and fans! I feel so sorry for her! All those photographers after her all the time and especially when she went to the hospital!! It makes her episode worse just having all the stress of all those people. I think her family should take her out of the country for awhile into a good treatment center maybe for bipolar . Maybe after a year if she is on the right meds and stable she could come back here. She needs much love and understanding! That will help a lot. Also people NEED to get educated about Bipolar disorder! Dont think just because you took a Psychology course you know all about this disorder! It is very complex and has a chemical inbalance involved. Each patient should be treated in a different way! it takes loving and caring family and friends to help the person with this disorder! hopefully someday there will be a cure! If you are interested go to the wedsite for ‘cures for Bipolar dissorder’ and donate some blood {DNA} to a Bipolar Research Institue. It will help a lot!!! Linda F From Grafton, Ohio

This comment has been removed by the author.

This comment has been removed by the author.

Misty,
Caring for your partner is brave. But it sounds like you’re cracking under the strain. Plus you have a chuild caught in this and it’s affecting him. He can’t do anything about this – s/he is helpless. You are not. You can help yourself and you ought to help your child. SDure, yourpartner deserves help because he’s sick and can’t help himself. But you can see – sometimes whatever you do makes, or s eems to make, no difference in the long run.
But we all need help sometimes – it sounds like you do, and maybe you can help yourself in ways you partner cannot. Your kid needs help – your help – and you can at least do that. Consider your options: Everone always has thee choices
1. Accept what you’ve got
2. Change it
3. Leave it.
So you have to ask yourself this about your situation:
1. Can I accept it?
2. If not, can I change it?
3. If none of the above…
You know the answer IF none of the above.
None of these options has to be permanent. It’s your choice. Good luck.

Can family step in?

Let me start by saying that unusual behavior is viewed by some as “creative,” others as a “pain in the butt,” and still others as “crazy” (with some form of diagnoses).

The laws in the US say that you cannot do much for an emancipated adult unless you are married to this person. A lot of your suggestions, David, help people understand the intervention process and give them more options on how they can assist, but that assistance needs to be mutual and built upon trust and support.

In one of the many chapters of my extended family’s experiences, a “crazy” aunt (who used to walk around her house naked, offending neighbors) was “locked up” by her relatives (brother and sister, in this case). I’m not sure of the year, but I think this was in the 1940s sometime.

Up until then, you could lock someone up and throw away the key. Not like your spouse’s behavior? If you were a man, you could put your spouse away at that time without much effort. This is one of the issues that was addressed and corrected in the 50s and 60s.

When the law changed, aunt walked out of the mental institution a free woman (I assume with clothing on) and never contacted her family again.

Often, a loved one’s behavior hurts us more than it hurts them. Unusual behavior among loved ones is an inconvenient truth of families.

In my opinion, it’s best that we get on with own lives and in doing so, provide guidance to others, rather than doubling our fists in hopes that our loved ones will change.

Frankly, if individuals want to “enjoy” life by toking up, drinking to excess, having sex with anything that moves, spending as though there is no tomorrow, and periodically screaming as though auditioning for a hip-hop opera, “god bless them.” I’ve seen enough of this type of behavior and with little exception, have loved every family member who’s exhibited it, whether or not they followed my excellent advice. (Note that in once case, a family member was making ever increasing charge card purchases to his impoverished parents. I suggested to the parents that they close their accounts and not let him have access. The response was “Why, Karen, what a great idea!” Their action? Not only did the parents let their son keep using the existing cards, they opened a few new accounts for him to use as everyone was short of cash.)

While using techniques similar to what David teaches, I’ve grounded my life and walked forward through the sea of shifting, unusual, and sometimes unpredictable family behavior and have always come out of the other side happy and healthy.

We, as people, are 100% responsible for our own behavior. How we act influences others. In war, unfortunately, many battles and national disputes have been won by killing everyone on the other side (think World War II Japan and what is currently happening in parts of Africa). This is not something we want to do with our loved ones, no matter how inconvenient their behavior is! Unless we have to stop someone from being violent, we might as well save our strength, be systemmatic in offering advice, and then, get on with our lives.

June again your opinion and not your place to make threats to a woman who is very desperate to do the right thing for her family….her son is not a baby from what I have read he is quite capable of taking care of himself if need be..you need a shrink as well…she specifically stated that there is no physical violence just stuff being thrown out a window. I too had concerns…but still not my place to say you better do this or else…
give your opinions but do not attack her choices.

Hi there, its Laurie aka Dillon’s mom. I see some people are very testy on here lately. Not a nice way to start the new year. This is not a place for bloggers to attack each other but that is definitely whats going on here. Wow, people make decisions and choices some right, some wrong but they make them all the same. I am not sure what this woman is doing by trying to keep her family together would be considered child abuse but I do know that learned behavior is what we become. If she thinks its healthy for her child to learn to abuse his future wife and family that is her choice. At some point the child will be able to decide if he wants to stay around the abuse or move on. Good wishes to all who come here. Dave, you are great!

June
I’m not necessarily saying this is the case here, but – unfortunately – things like this are too often not black and white, especially for the poor sap stuck in the middle of a dilema. Who should s/he support the most? Can s/he split themselves and support both? What is s/he to do when supporting one will damage the other, but s/he loves them both? It’s damned easy for us to sit on the sidelines and say “you ought to do this or that.” You may think X, I may agree or not, but we ain’t them and we ain’t the other people caught up in this tragedy. The kids of a friend of mine were in two minds when their Mum threw out her sometimes-violent mentally ill husband. They knew he was ill and they didn’t “blame him” for planting smacks on them every now and then because they knew it wasn’t his fault. They hated it when he was in one of those bad moods, especially when he hit their Mum, but they knew he wasn’t always like that. For all that he did, they still loved him! They did, and didn’t, want their Mum to push their Dad away because they loved (love) her, too. Not black and white. In the end, they backed their Mum’s decision to push Dad out. But one of them turned against her for a while after their Dad killed himself shortly after. He’d rather have had his Dad alive, for all his bad ways, than for him to be dead at his own hands. He thought it was Mum;s fault that Dad had died. (And he wasn’t the only one in the family that thought the same!)
Crazy Dad had hit people but he’d not killed anyone and he’d not hurt anypne so bad they needed to go to hospital. Sure, he might have done eventually. But then, he might not. In th end, he didn’t! He hurt himself rather finally!
So, what’s the outcome? The mad man is gone and the house is more peaceful without him. But their Dad, a father, a flawed father, is dead. They are growing up without a father, but they are also growing up without anxiety. They are glad to see the back of the traumas but they miss the good times they had with him the most.

And nowe their Dad has taken his own life, if they ever develop depression or a mental illness there is now a 52% probability they will follow his example, not 33% if he was still alive.

Oh, and their Mum is blamed by some members of the family and they won’t now talk to her. So, her boys are now deprived of some “uncles/aunts” that they had before. That’s damaging, too. They’ll feel it.

So, how do you weigh that up? Child abuse if he’s stayed, or child abuse now they’ve lost their Dad forever and in such appalling circumstamces, and all that implies for their future well-being? Now they’ve lost half their family because of the fallout after their Dad’s death? I expect you and I would probably agree which is the best outcome. Nevertheless, we must recognise that whatever decision is made in a situation likes it is often both right AND wrong. It is rarely black and white. You just have to go with what you feel is best, not right, at the time and hope you can live with the consequences, which is precisely what my friend did. I don’t think she has any doubts that she did the right thing because she felt the relationship was crapped out anyway by then. BUT she misses the estranged family perhaps as much as do her kids. Whatever the decision, the outcomes are never a bunch of roses. Whoever has to make the decision must try to weigh up the consequences of of the alternative choices and decide which is he lesser of the evils!

This comment has been removed by the author.

Hugs:)

June,
My kid is legally an adult.
Please do not jump to conclusions without knowing all facts.
I, as a responsible and loving mother, can appreciate your concern.
He was never abused, other than maybe spoiled by material things!
He does not fear his father, only FOR his father!
He is a well rounded young man, with his views and strong opinions, who would stand up for his beliefs, which he religiously does and has yet to get in trouble for that with his father! He is the one who HAS a handle on controlling the moods and has his coping methods which work fine for him and us, as a family.
This kid was wanted and worshiped from the day he was born! By BOTH parents!
The damage we did to him was the fact that we never denied him anything. I guess we were beyond lucky for having such a wonderful son who never pushed the limits but had common sense and never gave us a problem.
He is a straight A student, with a crapload of college classes, driving a BMW, and living the good life. Yes, we have problems, like every other family. But child abuse was NEVER one of them. If you really knew us, you would laugh out loud even thinking about such a possibility.

I do however, thank you for your concern. You were right to worry. Maybe I was a little confusing in how I related the incident. You can’t really blame me. I am tired and sometimes I feel too intense.
Sincerely,
Misty

I do appologize if I created all this commotion. To all of you who benefit from this blog, I am really sorry. Please forgive me.

Hi,

You are right.
And I’m NOT stupid.
Trust me: I stand correct when I say: he is OK.
But I applaud your convictions.

With a heart full of love:)

Kerry
I believe there are some BP Groups in Yahoo. The one I know consist ONLY of BPs, no supporters. They are heavily moderated but with good reason because there are some VERY distressed people who read the posts and it’s only too easy to cause them even more distress. Their purpose overlaps with this blog a little but it’s mainly either swapping information about medication and especially giving mutual support to fellow BPs – the “hang in their, buddy” kind of thing. It’s useful for those that need just that. This blog is a different kind of place not least because it includes the carers and offers the chance for them to enlighten BPs and BP’s to enlighten carers. That said, my impression is this blog doesn’t have many BP Type 1 contributors, which is just as well as I reckon some of them would be tipped over the top by recent posts! However, this is a place for BP Type 1 carers to come and swap notes or give each other support and, in this respect, this blog seems (to me)to be unique.

My daughter is having some serious issues and I have been trying to get her to go to a different pdoc…the one she goes to is military and keeps saying she is suffering from major depression so gives her Rxs along that line. They do not help. I have begged her to go get a second opinion yet she doesn’t.
She is on neurontin and aricept..She is 26 yrs old and out of control.
I see a lot of mistakes she is making in the things Britney does. I feel sorryt for both girls.Both are beautiful young women spiraling towards death and somehow it isn’t getting stopped. At least Britney is a care facility. My daughter is not. She says she just can’t go “right now” and I fear later will be too late.
What can I do ??
She has a 9 yr old son who is suffering his own problems because of her actions. She has informed her hubby of 9 yrs that she wants a divorce that she hates him…
He is a good man…he doesn’t know what to do any more than the rest of us so suggestions please.

To SUZANNEWA,
Hie, Suzanne, and I that was thinking talk to much, and you saying:”Someone has to be proactive, like you Dave, with your mother, and have the “Talk” with the survivors, while they’re stable,about setting up safeguards , for when they do have and episode”.For a support it is a great information.Thank you,and take care yourself. Lilian P.